C7 design story

They even updated the manifolds and brackets on the 430.

 

So, you're suggesting that Ferrari, McLaren, and Lamborghini should switch back to cast iron because they break less often?

Yah, that will fly.

I'm not blaming Chevy as they really, really, REALLY design to a price point. The fact that the base interior is $52,000 and you have to add $8,000 (about 15% of the cost of the entire base car) just to get a good leather interior speaks wonders on how they cut costs to meet their goals. $52,000 is darn amazing.

But, let's not make excuses for the price cutting either. Their marketing strategy is to design for "value for money", not to be the best there is or can be.

That's why no DCT. 80% of all Vette owners select the slush box, so why change to a more expensive version just to be better? It won't sell one more car and in fact, by making it more expensive, may sell LESS.

 

Who cares about the exhaust manifolds being cast iron if the flow well. Maybe that particular metal gives a better emissions number for a cold start drive. Perhaps noise is also an issue that works out better to with those exhaust manifolds.
More importantly did they go with cast or forged pistons for that LT1 motor?
CH

 

Unlike Ferrari owners, Corvette owners DRIVE their cars and expect reliability and durability. And any casting for the exhaust is not going to be like a 1970 casting. It is thin wall and has to last (I think) 7 years as an emissions component with owners who will put as match as 100,000 miles on it. I honestly don't think price is the issue. In fact I wonder if it is cheaper to fabricate headers than to invest into tooling for thin wall castings? The knee-jerk "it cost more so must be better" concept might not always apply.

Of course the car is built to a price point. It is also built to last. Without headers cracking. Without the dash shrinking and pulling away from the frame. Without the switchgear getting sticky. And in 2006 when the Z06 was introduced, the 430 weighed more, made less power.

I know, the 430 was laden with subjective adjectives that made it better. But by most objectives like power to weight, reliability, cost, lap times, even mileage, I am pretty sure the Z06 puts up better numbers than the 430. Pretty impressive in my view. And I like the fact that more enthusiasts can share the ownership experience of a Corvette than a Ferrari.

 

F430: 4.3 liters, 483 HP at 8500 rpm

458: 4.5 Liters, 575 HP at 9000 rpm

Vette: LT1 6.2 Liters: 450 HP at 6600 rpm

Game, set, match.

There may be no substitute for cubic inches but I think with 6.2 liters, Ferrari could do just a bit better.

But, you don't get something for "nothing". The Vette motor is simpler, cheaper, more reliable, and the fuel mileage numbers look really impressive. And, the additional displacement gives a ton of torque at low speeds.

It's an excellent bang for the buck -- which is it's purpose.

 

The pistons are not forged.

 

Those aluminum pistons give an 11.5:1 compression ratio now with a surface design to support DFI. Another change is the intake and exhaust valves have swapped location compared to the previous motor. This is a very efficient 6.2L motor!
CH

 

Specific output? One hardly knows where to begin. This is for car magazines and tax shelters. It is not a figure of merit in engineering.

Talk about power produced per unit weight, or unit fuel consumed, or external engine volume, or per moving part, or per dollar, or between rebuilds. Talk about BMEP.

Comparisons of specific output between engines of different design is meaningless.

There is no shortage of liters. Ferrari builds small, high-revving engines because that's what their customers want. Fair enough. But to get the same power as the SBC they require twice the number of valves, and four times the number of cams, and consume more fuel doing it. A trade-off made mainly for aesthetic reasons.

This doesn't make them better engineers, or a better engineering organization than General Motors.

 

Exactly. It won't fly because in the huge-dollar league, cars are often judged more by the means than by the ends. Fashion influences everything.

If someone made a cast-iron header that flowed better, weighed less and lasted longer than the TIG-welded Inconel one it replaced, you couldn't give them away because on a supercar it Just Wouldn't Do.

Everybody designs to a price point. Staying on the subject of exhausts, for example, I have six junk 355 headers rusting in my backyard. They look trick but they were cheaply made of cheap materials and all of them failed as a result.

Let's not make excuses for others delivering so little for so much. By many metrics, Corvettes are the best in absolute terms (e.g. ZR1 performance on a road course). That they pull this off _and_ at a fraction of the price of their performance peers is audacious and impressive.

 

Yo, collector dude. Quit being so objective! This is not GMchat.

 

Never have I gotten so much trash on a car I have already put a deposit down TO BUY.

Amazing.

Collector, you're post isn't worth responding too. You've officially gone off the deep end. You want to compare 1995 to 2014? When you compare a 355 to a 1995 C4 Vette, then we will listen.

Where's all the bad header reports on the 458? Oh, there aren't any.

 

You are spot on concerning the ZR1. In my view they out handle and pull stronger than almost any other car. There down side is the exterior looks dated. This is why I sold mine in preparation for the C7 which looks stunning. I am also thrilled they brough back the Stingray name.

The vettes are plastic not aluminum and that adds cost. The push rod and 2 valves per cylinder is old. I suspect the engine casting is still sand cast not investment cast. Having said all that when you drive it you cannnot tell it is so refined and smooth. you get a heads up display and the car up keep costs are good and the cost to buy is not outrages.

Lee

 

Not yet, had to deal with the exhaust-induced fires, first. In about 10 years when the first 458 cracks 10,000 miles we will have a better feel for header durability.

 

I suppose your point is to compare the C7's base engine estimated power, which I guess is fair enough. But in terms of bang for buck, I'd personally include the Z06 and ZR1 variants of the C6 if comparing to the 430 and 458, which are 505 and 612 respectively and I think both vehicles are lighter than either the 430 or 458. But I am with Lee on the ZR1's looks - I don't care for them. For me the hood window and tacked on carbon fiber bits are a real negative.

 

Hey, I may have gone off the deep end, but I'm not the one convinced there's a mouse in his pocket!

I mentioned the perennially terrible 355 headers as an example of a part compromised by budget. Every manufacturer does engineering to a budget, including Chevrolet and Ferrari both. This is as true in 2014 as it was in 1995. Times have changed in one respect, though: it used to be Ferrari that got the pass for falling down in the details because they were a smaller operation with a limited development money.

And it wasn't my intention to engage in a pissing match between brands, but rather to interrupt one by responding to your invidious apples-to-oranges comparison of specific output.

 

Getting back to what's important, here some interesting things from a recent presentation:

US Sales for 2 seat sports cars in 2013 MY: Vette number 1 in with 14K+, 911 #2

New LT1 engine torque vs competition

C7 size vrs 911 (about the same but with a longer wheelbase)

C7 Z51 has more downforce than 2013 Z06
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On thing I find fantastic is a front track that exceeds rear track. Usually found only in race cars.

 

The car is wider, longer, and lower than the C6 with a longer wheelbase. Steering wheel is 10mm smaller (finally not using an off the shelf wheel -- it's only for this car).
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Bob, I have a feeling that this car is going to exceed your expectations. I am going to definitely order one as well, but a Coupe. Plus I love Corvettes and always have.

Kverges, excellent point on the engines, but the ZR-1 actually produces 638 HP. I have a feeling that GM is coming in low on the LT-1 at 450HP, I think the actual number will be closer to 475.

 

Looking over the 1 and a half hour presentation they made on youtube, I'm pretty impressed. They didn't pull any punches about what they did or did not do.

It's clear they had some very tight budget constraints on the car. But, it's amazing they did what they did with the little money.

Let's face it: To tool a brand new car knowing that you can't sell it for more than $55,000 on average and you're only going to make about 15K of them a year for the next 5 years, it takes some clever repackaging to make something profitable from it.

 

Bob, do you have a link to the presentation? Was it the video from Geneva?

 

I'm buying mine out of a dealer in Maryland. If you want the info, PM me. The guy has a large allocation and selling them at MSRP. I'm picking mine up at the factory but it can be delivered to your local dealer also. I've heard rumors of a few dealers selling under MSRP but most want $5k more right now.

They start making coupes in September. Probably Convertibles in Nov or Dec.


Here is the youtube clip. It's over 90 minutes long. This was done at the Museum in Bowling Green last week.


The 2014 Corvette Stingray Seminar at the NCM Bash - YouTube!


There's more than this but these I think are the interesting highlights

2013 sales vs competition: 5:38
2013Total sales by type: 8:53
2013 Color percentage 9:10
New radiator layout explained 27:29
Z51 has more downforce than Z06, rear spoiler explained 32:16
Dimension changes from C6: 36:00
Dimensions vs 911: 37:39
TFT display info: 43:16
TFT graphics explained: 46:23
LT1 Torque vs competition: 50:40
Rev matching explained: 51:00
Chassis stiffness stats: 56:22
Extra weight explanation: 58:48
Electronic diff explanation: 1:03:38

 

Thank You!

 

Just to let you know, I've decided on a convertible 7 speed manual, Z51 package with optional magnaride, and 3LT interior (comes with Nav). Cost should be around $72K. Comes with a lot of standard equipment. Learning "Corvette-speak" has taken a few weeks to catch on.

Colors: I don't know yet but might be red and leather brown interior (they call it Kalahari). I like the dark metallic gray with a black/red 2 tone interior-- but it's close to my existing Maserati. It's not a true "bespoke" program but at least you can pick and choose from their Chinese menu instead of what the dealer decided for you on their lot.

Z51 comes with Ediff, larger wheels, larger brakes, dry sump, rear spoiler --$2800. Magnaride about $1700 more.

Coupes come with standard CF roof painted body color. If you want it in "visible CF" it's about 1800 more. Or, you can get it in clear tint still.