News

355 Cam phase sensor malfunction

Discussion in '348/355' started by taz355, May 11, 2019.

  1. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    7,285
    It's already been verified that the ECU is providing 12v to the coil and is grounding the trigger signal correctly. Additionally, the 12v supply for the coil was connected directly to the battery, bypassing the ECU +12v connection. I'm not saying it's not the case but what evidence there is doesn't support a ground problem. It's unlikely that internet diagnosis will solve this. I needs a hands on approach with proper equipment.
     
    jjtjr likes this.
  2. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Feb 18, 2008
    5,033
    Indio Ca/ Alberta
    Full Name:
    Grant
    I mayhave to fly someone up here ror the august l9ng weekend if i do not get this fixed.
    Ian and miro are quite a ways away.
    How much are flights from where your at John ha ha
     
  3. Beetle

    Beetle Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 10, 2013
    539
    Victoria
    Full Name:
    Paul, Australia
    One tool I purchased when I had an electrical gremlin in the system was a proper continuity tester. This item alone in my opinion has been priceless. For example if there is an earth issue/plug terminal and wire issue the alarm given is faint. Whilst a consistent lead with good terminal connection the alarm is quite loud and consistent. The othertool is your time and patients. Just my 2 bobs worth.
     
  4. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Feb 18, 2008
    5,033
    Indio Ca/ Alberta
    Full Name:
    Grant
    So what does a proper continuity tester look like?

    Also I found the ground Ian and I took it off and cleaned it. Thanks for the tip
     
    Qavion likes this.
  5. Beetle

    Beetle Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 10, 2013
    539
    Victoria
    Full Name:
    Paul, Australia
    When I get home after Jnr Football I will post a picture and the brand/part No.
     
  6. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob F1 World Champ
    Owner Consultant

    Aug 10, 2002
    16,809
    socal
    Close to 20 pages! I think Grant will have his car started soon...
     
    taz355 and Beetle like this.
  7. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Rookie

    Feb 20, 2015
    2,556
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Ian Riddell
    Not relevant to the situation, but I missed something in my injection/ignition system power diagram. The starter solenoid power wire coming from the passenger footwell relay panel must have a "diversion" somewhere to the immobiliser system on both the gated and F1 5.2 cars. I'm not sure about the 2.7 car, but the 5.2 immobiliser stops the engine cranking. On F1 cars, this diversion may be before or after the F1 TCU-controlled engine start inhibit/enable relay, but I've added it after the relay... until wiring checks on F1 cars prove otherwise. Unfortunately, I don't have an F1 car to play with :D

    Grant_Fig11a_1997_5.2_Injection_System_Ignitionv2

    On the Ferrari 550, the immobiliser ECU and pinouts seem to be almost identical to the F355s. However, even on the manual 550 (is their an 550 F1?), there is a dedicated start inhibit relay controlled by the immobiliser. This dedicated relay is controlled by certain pins on the immobiliser ECU, so it's likely that these pins directly control starter power on the F355, too (or perhaps via the mysterious alarm interface unit next to the Immobiliser ECU).

    At least with the engine cranking, Grant, you have some confidence that your immobiliser is not causing the issue.
     
  8. Beetle

    Beetle Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 10, 2013
    539
    Victoria
    Full Name:
    Paul, Australia
  9. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Feb 18, 2008
    5,033
    Indio Ca/ Alberta
    Full Name:
    Grant
    No thats not true Ian. On 99F1s the car will only crank if in neutral, and will crank if in neutral but not start if the immobilizer is not disengaged. The immobilizer cuts the fuel I believe to the injectors.
    Actually does not cut the fuel but likely does not fire the injectors via the main ECU
    So both need to be active to start ie the f1 has too allow cranking and the immobilizer has to allow fuel.
     
  10. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Rookie

    Feb 20, 2015
    2,556
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Ian Riddell
    #460 Qavion, Jun 30, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2019
    Now I'm completely lost. On my gated car, the starter will not crank with the immobiliser active. You're saying that if the F1 car is in neutral it will crank if the immobiliser is active?

    I'll have to add an extra note on my diagram showing the diversion is not applicable to F1 cars.

    It seems strange that the F1 didn't use the existing wiring. Maybe for reliability purposes, Ferrari thought two relays in series in the starter solenoid circuit was too risky.
     
  11. Beetle

    Beetle Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 10, 2013
    539
    Victoria
    Full Name:
    Paul, Australia
    Sorry got me confused also!!! I always thought/believed that 96 and onwards had to be !immobilizer OFF for car to crank! Until you hit the fob in my 5.2 96GTS IT WILL NOT CRANK. Anyway I hope I have helped with the continuity meter.
     
    Qavion likes this.
  12. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Feb 18, 2008
    5,033
    Indio Ca/ Alberta
    Full Name:
    Grant
    No my car and many others, Daverocks, some others who can chime in will confirm that many cars will crank but not fire with immobilizer off.
    My leo will not even communicate with the ignition portion with the immobilizer active. It must be deactivated for me too test injectors.
    I think if you do a search it is not only f1s but some later models as well.
     
    Beetle likes this.
  13. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Feb 18, 2008
    5,033
    Indio Ca/ Alberta
    Full Name:
    Grant
  14. Beetle

    Beetle Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 10, 2013
    539
    Victoria
    Full Name:
    Paul, Australia
    You can see the steel centre ITS A MAG PICKUP. It's correct mate
     
  15. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    7,285
    Any decent VOM has a continuity tester built in.
    Measure the impedance between the center pin and the outside pins. One measurement should be OPEN, the other should be around 900 ohms. It's the same part on a 2.7 and a 5.2. Bosch 0261210126.
    Rock Auto shows 1 in stock for $71.
    https://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/bosch,0261210126,crankshaft+position+sensor,7196
     
  16. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Feb 18, 2008
    5,033
    Indio Ca/ Alberta
    Full Name:
    Grant
    It confirms that open and about 850 ohms
    So is it good?
     
  17. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Rookie

    Feb 20, 2015
    2,556
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Ian Riddell
    You mean active, not off?

    Dave has an F1. I think we need some more US manual car drivers to chime in here.

    No argument here. All cars need this. It's just the cranking that seems different. Paul (Beetle) has a US-based manual 5.2 car, so it's not just an Australian thing.
     
    Beetle likes this.
  18. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Rookie

    Feb 20, 2015
    2,556
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Ian Riddell
    #468 Qavion, Jun 30, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2019
  19. Beetle

    Beetle Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 10, 2013
    539
    Victoria
    Full Name:
    Paul, Australia
    Any good VOM will be a whole lot more expensive than the tool I'm showing the picture of. If the sensor tests ok then it SHOULD be ok but maybe it's a intermittent switching issue.
     
  20. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Rookie

    Feb 20, 2015
    2,556
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Ian Riddell
    Hard to make an assessment, Grant, but you're probably right about late model manual cars having the ability to crank (i.e. possibly late '98 and 99). Prior to that, it was F1 cranks, MT doesn't. I don't see the point of why they would change it. I guess, on MT cars, you could use the starter to shift your car to the side of the road if your engine died and the immobiliser decided to fail in the active position.

    Now I'm going to pull my (gated '98) car to pieces again to see what causes the no start. :p
     
  21. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    7,285
    Must be and Aussi thing. :) I paid around $30US for my VOM and it does AC/DC volts, amp, resistance, capacitance, diode check and continuity, Hz, and a few other functions I've never used.
     
    Beetle likes this.
  22. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Feb 18, 2008
    5,033
    Indio Ca/ Alberta
    Full Name:
    Grant
    Yes. If the immobilizer is not deactivated then car turns over no start.
     
  23. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Rookie

    Feb 20, 2015
    2,556
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Ian Riddell
    Yeah, U$30 is A$1000 & CAN$900 these days :(
     
    taz355 and Beetle like this.
  24. Beetle

    Beetle Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 10, 2013
    539
    Victoria
    Full Name:
    Paul, Australia
    Plus shipping + duties+ taxes and then AUD$550 Unfortunate but true in Aus
     

Share This Page