355 - Cam phase sensor malfunction | Page 3 | FerrariChat

355 Cam phase sensor malfunction

Discussion in '348/355' started by taz355, May 11, 2019.

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  1. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    It's a 5.2, Miro.

    F1 car.
     
  2. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
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    Fine, 12V is then correct for sensor testing. I had a look at the workshop manual for the 348 - the 2.7 has 5V on the sensor provided by the ECU, thus the connection of the sensor's pin 1 to the ECU and not to ignition switched supply. The 2.7 355s most probably also have 5V on the sensor's pin 1 as it is also connected to the ECU.
     
  3. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    Test voltage doesn't matter as long as you don't over voltage the sensor. I'm hot sure if the sensor is normally on or normally off but it doesn't matter. it should switch between near zero and the supply voltage when tested. So when the metal is close to it or off, or vise versa.
     
  4. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    Its not doing that and neither is the new sensor. I guess its possible the new sensor is pooched but i doubt that.
    The new sensor after not working in the car, tests the same as the old one
     
  5. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    The supply voltage to the sensor works so i need to continuity test the signal line

    I am also going to check the coil parts because I def know that the bank 1 is dead for spark.
     
  6. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    Unplugged coil bank 1 car ran the same.
    Replaced coil with spare new one, ran the same as being unplugged
    Checked continuity from main ecm plug to coil two outside pins tested ok. Did not test diag center pin
    Previously had checked the signal line from cam sensor but retested anyway has power,ground,and signal all ok

    All spark plug wires are new from engine out last year but all would not go at once?
    Not the alarm because bank 2 runs
    Not the fuel pressure regulator because can smell fuel
    Needs to be ignition i would think

    Going to reread workshop manual see if the lights come on ha ha
     
  7. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    Thought it might be the idle controlvalve but it seems ok
    Will test continuity tomorrow
    Also checked battery voltage which is good at 13.5
     
  8. Cauf61

    Cauf61 Formula Junior

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    Indeed my mistake. The cam sensor is completely different. Sorry
     
  9. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Grant, summarize this for me.

    Did you do any work to the car before all the CEL message?
    Since the CEL, what has been done?
    Do you have an oscilloscope?
    Can you look at the cam signal at the 88 pin ECU connector?
     
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  10. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    What was the actual code on the OBD2 reading? No one seems to have the code interpretations for the 5.2, so they combine the 2.7 codes with the F360 codes and hope for the best.
     
  11. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    Anything between P0340 and P0349 are generic cam position codes. Any look up table will give specifics.
     
  12. jjtjr

    jjtjr Formula Junior

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    #62 jjtjr, May 18, 2019
    Last edited: May 18, 2019
    Grant,
    Did you try a known good ignition module on bank 1? I know you said you tried a coil, but the ignition module triggers the coil. Ooppss... I see your car is a 5.2, so I hope its not your "module". The 2.7's have 2 ignition modules, one for each bank.
     
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  13. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    No work on car. All i had done was take it for a 50 mile drive the week before and fueled it up
    There was a check engine light but when i read the code the second time to get the code number i think i erased it or it just went away on its own.
    I have let the car rough idle for 15 seconds a few times but the code does not come back.
    I dont have a scope but could maybe borrow one but have not used one for 30 years
     
  14. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    I nelieve it was the 0340 code but nit possitive. I think it said cam phase sensor malfunction
     
  15. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    I could switchthe bank 2 with the bank one.
    But i installed the new one in bank one and nothing so it could be bad but i doubted.

    I guess the sdl ecu could be at it again but no flashing sdl when car ran for 15 seconds.
     
  16. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    There is only one Cam sensor on the intake cam shaft, toward the rear of the valve cover. Did you replace that? There is also only one crank sensor at the main pulley so there is no swapping left to right. What did you replace?
     
  17. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    I think i may need to
    It did not do this
    I had about 12.5 volts applied just like the car would. I then probed the center signal pin and the ground outside pin and as i moved the screwdriver onto the sensor it went from a hunting mV signal to a constant 4.5 mV. I think i said 4.5 volts before but this stupid digital meter is hard to see and its actually said mV. I sho7ld have used my old analog one.
     
  18. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    I tried a whole new 5.2 coil with. The ignition module signals come from my main Ecu

    I guess it could be that portionof my main Ecu but i doubt that as well
     
  19. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    I checked the pin connections i the main ECU plug and none appear like they would be spread and not connecting.

    This is where if I co7ld test with a scope it would ensure a signal and connection. I may have to borrow a scope.

    I guess going to the mechanical problems if a cam belt jumped a tooth i would assume pistons would hit valves but i have no idea really without doing the math.
    Anyth8ng else mechanical wise that would make this happen.
     
  20. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    It could be my imagination but when i unpluggd the coil on bank 1 the car actually seemed to idle smoother initially for about 10 seconds than with the coil plugged in.
     
  21. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    The coil on bank 1 sorry should have stated that.
    I was just repeating what i did above.
     
  22. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    I also replaced the cam sensor but i new it was not likely that because the old one tested the same as a new one
     
  23. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Ok, let's back up and cover some basic.

    Check the fuel pressure at the injector rails. Some 355s have a Schneider valve at the end of the rail for this.
    Pull a plug and see if you can test for spark at a number 4 cylinder
    Measure the voltage coming out of the thermal control unit, bank 1, it should be way below 5V if it is running correctly.
    If you can get a scope, put a scope on injector plug 4, see if you have a triggering voltage. It goes from 12V to 0V when it triggers at the RPM frequency. So, idling at 1200 RPM is 20 Hz.
    Also scope out the phase sensor signal at the ECU

    And you have changed the coil, and phase sensor, correct?
     
  24. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    #74 Qavion, May 18, 2019
    Last edited: May 18, 2019
    Will the engine crank with the ECU plug disconnected?

    You can buy rechargeable pocket-sized oscilloscopes these days, for around $100 on eBay, but I'm not sure how you'd hook one up. The engine harness is sealed. I don't think pocket oscilloscopes like the "DS211" have inductive coupling (and the sensor cable is shielded anyway). I guess you could pull off the plug, hook it up and use the starter motor to crank the engine, but you'd still need to provide power and earth to the sensor. Ideally, you'd have to fabricate an extension lead with semi-exposed wires.

    Are the spark plug leads shielded? Can you use one of those $10 pen type inductive lead testers on the F355?
     
  25. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    You remove the connector housing, plug the plug back in and pierce the wires. Or, you find a break out box.
     

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