Can anyone help fill some gaps in my Vignale records

I don't have that issue of Autocar at hand, but by memory I think we are dealing with 212 Export Spider 0090/E here.

0125/EL does not necessarily require any mishap to explain a delivery in August. Many things were changing at this time, new body styles being prepared and all, so delays were normal. For me the Liege-Rome-Liege car looks like an early-to-mid 1951 style Coupé. Had it been constructed later, it would most certainly carry slotted tail lights that were introduced during summer of 1951 and first shown to public in Paris in October 1951! Therefore I am very sceptic about it having already received a replacement body.

Best wishes, Kare

 

In an article on 0125E in Thoroughbred & Classic Cars of March 1996 there is reference to the Motorcar article of June 1951, this being the first Ferrari road test ever (the first Ferrari road test in Road&Track appeared in November 1952). There is no confirmation it was the same car, but this is also impossible as in June 1951 the 0125E had a Coupe body, delivery date May 29 (confirmed in the article, first owner Richard from Brussels). The Liège-Roma-Liège race was held from August 15-19, 1951, where the coupe bodied car crashed during the race. Second owner 1953 was Lintermans from Brussles, then 1955 and 1957 2 colonels of the USAF stationed in Brussels.

 

I bow to those far more experienced than I on this subject. The two cars seem to be identical except we all know no two Feraris of this period are identical. I have both credited with the Autocar road test but I think Boudewijn may be correct that 0090E.The Autocar pictures seem to indicate the possibility of two colors on the body which would fit with 0090E which is the Umberto Marzotto car. The Marzotto brothers were the first major customers of S.F.and it would be more than likely they would loan the car to S.F. for the road test. The 400 klms on the odometer would also fit in. tongascrew

 

The un-named journalist writes: "For example, I have in my hands photocopies of the original factory test sheet and notification of build of a 1951 Ferrari 212 Vignale spider. At least it is a spider now. On May 29 1951 - the date mentioned on these copies - it left factory as a Vignale-bodied coupé."

I don't have build sheet at hand, but it seems to me that he likely quotes the date the chassis (frame) was completed and/or tested and jumps into conculision that the entire car had already been completed.

Certificato for this car, on the other hand, was signed on 11/08/51 and the car described a Vignale Berlina 4-posti. I think this is much more reliable document for the cars actual completion. It then appeared in Liege-Rome-Liege rally only days later.

Best wishes, Kare

 

Hello Kare,

The completion date of the car does not always concur with the date of the certification issue. I have examples of cars that were ready before and after the certification. I presume the car was finished already on May 29 and the certificate was issued 3 months later. The same happened for example with 0143E which was completed on July 20, 1951 and the certificate was issued on September 22, 1951.

Best regards
Boudewijn

 

The "certificato d'origine" was necessary for the registration. Often registration did not happen until the first sale... This easily explains some delays. Best

 

Too many presumption are the main reason why the Vignale production is filled with confusion.

If there are documents we should not be guessing what was completed on 29/05/51, it should be 100% clear as somebody must have copies of those documents!

Best wishes, Kare

 

I think attention to the mystery "thin pillar coupes" is very relevant as there were four cars, and only two of them seem to have been properly identified.

The first one likely was 0061/S, but very hard to be sure.

The second one is 0065/S, the only survivor, probably shown in original form in the second photo.

The third one has been confirmed to have been 0097/S. Destroyed in fire around 1954.

Then we have the 4th car. A total mystery which could be any of the missing numbers really: 0061/S-0073/S-0083/S-0099/S, maybe even 0095/S as I am not 100% convinced this really was the "Biga Coupe" shown in Turin 1951. My guess would be 0099/S as it would put it into context as a sister car for 0097/S which would also explain why there seem to be no factory photos of it. 0097/S was clearly an old design built to fill up production while construction of the new designs were delayed, probably waiting for the glass to be delivered. 0099/S may very well have been another one, as no information whatsoever seem to exist for this missing number number.
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Does anybody know the Touring number of 0064/M ? Is it #3454 or 3464 ??

If it's #3454, so there is a blank in the Touring numbers (#3464) wich would fit perfectly with 0083/S...

 

I do agree about the Pandora's box. This must be the most complicated Ferrari mystery to remain unsolved!

The "high roof Vignale Berlina" listed as 0099/S in the Massini book is not the same car as Prince Bernhard's very similar car. There were at least two such Vignale Berlinas - and 0099/S is a too early serial number for either of them - by margin of 6 months or so!!!

I think the first "high roofer" might have been 0127/E and the 2nd one 0139/E (Prince Bernhard car).

Therefore I think that 0099/S must have been either a "thin-pillar coupe" like 0097/S or a "Biga" Coupe like 0091/S. Anything else seems unlikely.

Best wishes, Kare

 

I agree completely Best we can do is keep the book open and wait for the next shot. tongascrew

 

Was this front of 0207EL so delivered or were the auxiliary lights later "rebodied"?

Front is completely different than the other three Vignale convertibles (0159EL, 227EL and 255EU).

The rearview mirror on the fender looks like aftermarket - was it always mounted there?

Pic found on FChat

Image Unavailable, Please Login