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Can you convert FF to RWD?

Discussion in 'FF/Lusso/F12/812S' started by Kaizu, Jun 16, 2017.

  1. Kaizu

    Kaizu Rookie

    Oct 14, 2005
    5
    I apologize I'm not experienced with this model, but could it be converted to be a full time RWD? Anyone done that, any details?

    Every spirited driver has given some complaints about the 4WD system of FF.

    I'm thinking a RWD FF would be an awesome driver's car compared to an ordinary FF, even though it would lose its winter use capabilities.

    Your views?

    Thanks!
     
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  3. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 11, 2013
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    Why not just get a GTC-T?

    I would imagine doing this to an FF or GTC4 would be expensive and fraught with complexities.
     
  4. 996TTurbo

    996TTurbo Formula 3

    Apr 9, 2006
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    #3 996TTurbo, Jun 16, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 17, 2017
    Excuse me, Every?

    I own an FF, power slide the **** out of it whenever I want, GT2 owner/track guy here too :)
    I have no complaints with it, its not RWD tail happy but its still fun as hell if you know what you're doing
     
  5. chrixxx

    chrixxx Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Mar 22, 2004
    868
    Lucerne
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    Chris
    Yes its not a Range Rover in terms of 4WD in the mud, but hell this car is amazing! I drive it anyway all the time in ESC off so most power goes in the rear.
     
  6. dcmetro

    dcmetro F1 Veteran

    Nov 27, 2007
    7,960
    Paris , France
    Full Name:
    Olivier
    Yes can easily do it. Sell it and buy a F12

    I can't see a valuable reason to enter this technical headache to disconnect the Front wheels, except killing resale value and endanger the very sophisticated 4WD system.
     
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  8. Kaizu

    Kaizu Rookie

    Oct 14, 2005
    5
    Thanks for the comments, highly appreciated!

    Why am I so stupid I ask? Just love the RWD handling and visiting tire shops... :)

    Why interested in FF RWD? Where I live the FF can be had for a lot lower price than the F12. It has the needed 4 seats and I love the styling of FF more than of F12 (TDF excluded), the clown shoe look is something unique and I still have a Z3 Coupé from early days in my collection).

    Not worried about resale here. I modify my cars but keep the looks always on OEM or "OEM+" spec. One of the cars I have is a 996 Turbo with proper RWD conversion and I think it did not destroy that car, it's fastest street-legal 996 I know of on race tracks.

    I'll have to do some test drives with FF and check it out in more detail. FF is so rare compared to F12 at least among my friends.
     
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  9. Entropy

    Entropy Formula 3
    Owner

    Jul 10, 2008
    2,151
    Converting an FF to just RWD would be a VERY complex and expensive undertaking for sure

    Remember, the FF is NOT "All wheel drive" - the fronts get ZERO torque applied unless the software determines it's required....this is not an Audi/XDrive/4Motion/et al system

    As for 996 Porsches, it's true it's "easier" to disable the front drive, as it has a transfer case you can disconnect and the software itself is adjustable

    To "disconnect" the FF, you'd need to remove the 4RM box, probably rebuild a custom adaptor for the front of the engine, and more importantly reprogram the (many) ECU's that are expecting to see a 4RM system hanging there ready to work. If money is no object and you have access to VERY capable modern Ferrari mechanical and software engineering resources, go for it.

    The better option is to get an FF and enjoy it - sounds like you don't have much seat time in one. The fronts will add torque only in specific situations, and only up to a specific point, and you likely won'd notice it. Plus the FF has such a long wheelbase and such a high polar moment of inertia that even in RWD, it would not be tail happy to start with (though yes, you can drift an FF).
     
  10. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 11, 2013
    9,755
    You know, you might be on to something... what if you could program the FF to simply not use the front PTU and then whatever compensation you need at the rear. Again, I think you would be better off buying the FF and just enjoying it, or 612, GTC4T, F12, 599, take your pick...
     
  11. Entropy

    Entropy Formula 3
    Owner

    Jul 10, 2008
    2,151
    that's sort of how the car is designed now; essentially, if "all is good", then the front tires would never get any torque

    In our experience (2 FF's, 18K miles?) the front drive kicks in and is noticeable 1) under hard acceleration where the rears break loose - but not too much, as the weight bias is already rearward and doesn't take much to get front slip 2) in low-medium grip, slow-medium speed corners where the car would want to oversteer and 3) when the car has rotated and the car is trying to have the fronts (with grip) "pull" the car through

    Most people would never try it, but doing an autocross, or ideally a wet autocross, is a great way to see how the 4RM intervenes.

    << end of piling on>>
     
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  13. Lesia44

    Lesia44 F1 World Champ
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    Aug 5, 2009
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    Not worth the trouble.
     
  14. AClark

    AClark Formula Junior
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    Jan 22, 2017
    282
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    What's keeping an owner from having the front half shafts removed? Leave everything else in place.
     
  15. Entropy

    Entropy Formula 3
    Owner

    Jul 10, 2008
    2,151
    <<piling on again>>

    Nothing. I'm guessing that in the event that the sensors (yaw sensor, wheel speeds, throttle position, steering angle, and about 10+ others) would normally trigger the 4RM to engage, it would trigger a 4RM error as torque is applied and goes nowhere

    probably a combination of 4RM errors, plus it would likely trip "data not plausible" errors (i.e. it's expecting something, doesn't see it, and triggers).

    One of the beautiful things about the FF, and most modern Ferraris, is how the 100's of sensors are integrated and the software works; on the other hand, it can be a nightmare if there are issues and/or be the nannies that won't go away

    <<actual end of piling on>>

    For all the cost, time, effort and resource of trying to do this to an FF, I wonder if a One-Off would be more cost effective? It would be a cool "experiment" for sure
     
  16. AClark

    AClark Formula Junior
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    Jan 22, 2017
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    Or , for that matter, just do as a member said above, and buy a Lusso W/ V8 RWD..

    IMO , the draw of the FF IS the AWD system
     
  17. CrazyMD

    CrazyMD Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2012
    395
    Southern California
    I think you should try it and come back and explain to us how it worked out for you


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  18. FF4X4

    FF4X4 Rookie
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    Oct 8, 2016
    41
    Seriously?? I have no problem going sideways in mine......
     
  19. otakki

    otakki Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2016
    1,527
    I love the shooting brake styling of the FF, too. You should check out the M Coupe concept below. IMO, it's really bada$$ and it should see production:
    https://www.motor1.com/news/148707/bmw-m-coupe-concept-rendering/
     
  20. PhantomCypher

    PhantomCypher Formula Junior

    May 25, 2014
    281
    USA
    Sure dump the gear into 4th and the car becomes RWD......
     
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  21. otakki

    otakki Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2016
    1,527
    I thought it's the 5th.
     
  22. Brian L

    Brian L Formula 3

    Jun 17, 2015
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    False. Show some links please.
     
  23. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Why? The car never really feels 4WD. It grips very good yes but it doesnt have that awkard understeer that most 4wd cars have. The font is actually very direct.
     
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  24. CrazyMD

    CrazyMD Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2012
    395
    Southern California


    Why... because there are a lot of retards in this world


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  25. CptJoe1983

    CptJoe1983 Rookie

    Aug 4, 2017
    20
    New to the forum here, plan on purchasing a FF in the next year. Stumbled across this thread and there is a guy on youtube who claims his FF has been converted to RWD and he does some good burnouts in his video. Not sure about any of it, but he claims it is.

    Watch "STRAIGHT PIPED V12 FERRARI WITH $100k in MODS! *Insane FLY BYS*" on YouTube
     
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  26. iloveferrari

    iloveferrari Formula 3

    Dec 14, 2014
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  27. Sonicsound

    Sonicsound Karting

    May 14, 2017
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    SVR likes this.
  28. Carnut

    Carnut F1 Rookie
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    Nov 3, 2003
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    Morrie
    Allow me to chime in, I have converted a few cars to RWD over the years, and there are lots of issues you should consider beyond the fact the car would likely be worthless to 99.9% of people. Electronics, switching older cars like the Gallardo and 996TT, which did not have electronics controlling the amount of power being sent to the wheels are fairly easy, but even those cars had issues with traction controls (like they stopped working), I can only imagine what sensors are used in a FF and they would react (it might not even move) to the car in RWD. Balance, it took about a month to get the balance right in the Gallardo, less in a 996TT (I know Porsche's better), and it required a new set of wheels and tires as well as suspension changes. I have never driven a FF (I have driven recently the Lusso in RWD) , but my guess is you would need to rebalance the car to get the feeling you are looking for. I am all for doing crazy things to cars (I still keep an example of my craziness in a garage at my company, but I would say just by a RWD Lusso. In the long run it is smarter (and less expensive) move.
     

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