car design thread

What did Ford copy? Im not saying they haven't. I am genuinely curious...

They essentially transformed the world and the industry in the 20s and 30s.

50s were a struggle...

60s... they came out with the Mustang... which well... GM responded with a Camaro later... Lincoln did alright with there designs in the 60s... Then they took racing by storm with the GT40 project... didn't do the corvette front engine rear drive... did a midengine car

70s... well lets call the 70s a wash for everyone...

80s.... Id also say both companies started to get there feet under them...

90s... They practically reinvented the pick up... had huge sales of mustangs...

2000s and beyond.... 1st company to do retro (successfully in my opinion) with the mustang... camaro then followed... Aluminum trucks... turbo charged engines in trucks... mid engine sports cars... multi cam engines in EVERYTHING...

In my opinion ford has the best head on there shoulders and is looking ahead. GM is trying to keep market share... but is on defense and not on offense... Not saying that GM is terrible...I just think there head points backwards and not forwards...

For crying outloud the escalade is a pick up truck frame... with a pickup truck engine... with a pickup truck axle. If ford was copying GM... they would have a pushrod motor... a solid axle... naturally aspirated...

 

I personally think they rely on the escalade too much... And to be honest for a 100k... im not buying an escalade over a Range Rover.

I will spend 100k on a CTS-V over an M5 or a E63... I love my CTS-v.

I do like and I do think Cadillac needs to pick what they are going to be... Here are there choices in my book

1. Be a competitor to Lincoln... I think we can all agree... thats not a good move as thats a low bar and europe trounces lincoln.

2. Be a competitor to European manufacturers... So take on Audi and BMW etc... not a bad direction... but as great as the ATS is... The ATS is not a cadillac kind of car. Its a fantastic car though. Just not a cadillac. The ATS is wonderful and a phenominal car and goes well against Audi, Benz and BMW... but it doesn't go in line with the archaic escalade. Then they do half-baked crossover like the xt5. Ridiculous. Spend the money get a real platform build a real x5 competitior. The market is moving to SUVs. spend your money there. Cadillac gets the funding to spend money on all new chassis... and then screws itself in segments like small european sedans. DO WHAT YOU DO BEST. Larger... vehicles. The CTS is fantastic. The escalade is well liked... GO THERE.

3. Be the standard of the world... OR STOP USING THE SLOGAN... You are cheapening the name... just like you did with FLEETWOOD. You sell out yourself all the time. The Xt5 and CT6 is not the standard of the world. They are good cars... they are not the standard of the world. Its a joke that everyone else gets... but you (Cadillac). Go back to being the standard of the world. Go be a rolls or bentley kind of manufacturer. Be something special... like my 30s cadillacs are/were. Be big... bold and grand. Europe has this other crap figured out.. and trying to barge in and make way for yourself... which you have been trying to do for 20 years... is expensive and time consuming. Just go be you and do it better. Build something no one else is building. Let me tell you... BMW softened its suspension for a reason... they didn't want there aging customers to leave them either... sound familiar? Not everyone drive on the ring to get to work! Build something that people can be proud of in the US.

4. Take charge... I mean literally take a charge. Take Cadillac as the electric car brand. I do not like electric cars... but hell even I would invite them to take this, personally undesirable, route. The electric car world is more than likely going to happen. Jump in front of tesla as the new standard.

Ok rant over. Hope you enjoyed all of my bad grammar and misspellings

 

I will agree with some of the 50s stuff as far as design. They may have tried to copy... but they poorly executed... or... as a ford guy... Ill say it... ugly. I think they pulled themselves together all on there own thanks to Lee in the early and mid 60s. They and everyone else lost the plot in the 70s in my opinion.

I tell you what... Im ok with the copying of bentley... Not because I think it is a great car... its that I would support ANYTHING to break there current bad design language of the last 10 years. AWFUL. I owned an 06 navigator which i LOVED... even while working at BMW... I loved it. Even after they put the ecoboost in it I couldn't go back in and buy another... it was hideous... and well... old. except the engine. Thats another story.

The only thing Lincoln has done well/interesting is the back of there vehicles (prior to the new continental) They did a very nice job on that MKC (that little crosseover) and the back of the MKZ. I thought those were great... its a shame they slapped the twin beak nose on it.

 

Image Unavailable, Please Login John, looking good again!

 

Wonderful picture there onboard; talk about being in the right place at the right time...

 

John and I talk of aesthetic design. Platforms and engines are issues that Design can't control.

Ford had a long history through the 1950s with George Walker and then through Bordinat's tenure of copying what GM did first. "The Duece" was known to be financially averse to risk and following what GM did first fed into that. Neither Walker or Bordinat had any intention of being leaders in design like Harley Earl, Bill Mitchell or Virgil Exner. That is not to say that Ford did not have a sporadic aesthetic hit but they were fundamentally the aberration. Europe can be excluded from some of this because they got left alone to a decent degree.

Ford did change when Jack Telnack replaced Bordinat. This also coincided with Ribycki being the head of GM Design, the start of the decimation of all that Earl and Mitchell had built. Over at Chrysler Iacocca had brought in DeLarossa, ace henchman and drinking buddy of Bordinat. So for a small period Ford actually led in Detroit; Taurus, Thunderbird, Mark VII.

Then leadership switch to Tom Gale at Chrysler. Fortunately Gale succeeded DeLarossa and a spectacular renaissance found its way to Chrysler. Their show cars even stayed true as they became productionized.

As for current Detroit Design leadership - none, despite all the talent within the ranks that exists at each place.

 

Not car design per se, but design in Detroit. Starting today!

Detroit City of Design Summit

https://www.detroitdesignfestival.com/event/detroit-city-design-summit/

Also, later in the month, Ford UX: Engineering Meets Design Thinking

https://www.eventbrite.com/e/ford-ux-engineering-meets-design-thinking-tickets-37098404326

Detroit is definitely thumping. Bright future ahead.

John, I wish we could have met up last January. Regardless, I had a way cool time in the city.

-F

 

The Fuego was actually regarded as a fairly handsome, cogent design in the '80's... look as some other '80's cars... ugh. Like the Monte Carlo...
Tastes change.

 

As far as Detroit auto design yesterday (50's) vs. today, the cars of yesterday had...SOUL.

But that seems to be coming back. The Big Three are rediscovering their mojo, really channeling a 60's era, Mad Men Modernism cool kind of vibe.

-F

 

Still the 70's Montecarlo was more entertaining... Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Switch back to the old Fchat format and your dome and sunset is back in a square picture format.

 

Not su

I believe that the Lancia Montecarlo was the first production application of a bonded windshield.

 

Mid 1970's latest technology I guess; did not know that!

 

Looks fine in the FerrariChat Old skin setting. I prefer the square avatars too.

All the best,
Andrew.

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Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login View attachment 2443971 View attachment 2443971 Image Unavailable, Please Login Concave and convex all in the same place. It seems nobody does subtle curves anymore.

 

Smooth Operator

Impressionable young minds! Show them that red four door Pontiac...

 

F12/812 might be a reasonable example? There are some cool details on the 812; prefer the mesh grille to the classic egg crate, for example - since dimensions have grown such that the egg crate now resembles the big 'ol rack of choppers on the grinning Sausages dog.

Still ...

Looking at all the cool new shapes, swoops and scoops on the 812 as all of a piece - it lacks a bit of the grace of the F12.

But is grace still a thing? The disco stick may hold sway as design tool of choice in current exotic car studios (and subsequent trickle-down, as it applies)?