Carfax and Ferrari - is this normal?

A PPI is essential unless buying a CPI car from a an authorized dealer.

 

I value Carfax hardly more than a conversation with the seller. Carfax is not a record of the history of the car. It is a record of what Carfax knows about the history.

And their knowledge may be incomplete or incorrect.

 

thorn hits it on the head.

A car, never wrecked (past the reportable $$$... ) and under a long term owner, who maybe used a private shop in lieu of a dealer, might well have no reported items.

As stated the seller would know that in his history!

 

I've looked at hundreds of carfax's for Ferrari's and many cars and never seen one without the first sale and at least a couple of registration events. Literally not having anything for the first few years is odd for sure (as the one you linked)...

Oh, one more reason to be very careful with CARFAX...there is a car for sale on the market right now that had flood damage and needed a new engine and loads of work done...there was nada on the carfax and it was sold CPO recently. Then the buyer found out about the flood damage and returned the car (to the dealer's credit, they took it back). Anyways, the car sold again via auction and is now re-listed for retail sale at another dealership...no mention of the damage of course. And, a week ago when first re-listed, carfax showed nada. BUT, now, somebody reported the damage and "yup", it is now magically on the carfax and properly dated from 3 years ago when the damage occurred!

Long story short - you can buy a car with a great, clean carfax and at a later date during your ownership, it can suddenly show a long-ago accident or whatever. Now that is scary! (the new buyer is screwed in that they paid "clean" history price but are now stuck with a damaged car value).

 

Carfax is an unreliable novelty. No partial public record history with the disclosures and indemnity clauses they include should ever be trusted over a hands on inspection by a qualified shop. People who determine which car to purchase based simply on its Carfax record or put much stock in what limited info they include do so at their own peril.

 

My answers (YMMV):

A) *If* it was the perfect spec and there were no alternatives, I guess I'd consider PPI'ing it and buying. But I'd rather not...
B) Heaven knows...could be nothing or could be something you don't want to be a subsequent owner of.

The bigger problem with this is that your instincts as a buyer are likely common...meaning resale is going to be challenging. Its one more "sales objection" you will have to overcome and it will reduce the number of interested buyers to a degree (we can speculate whether its a large or small degree, but there can be no doubt there will be some buyers that don't consider the car).

 

Carfax is just one piece of the puzzle. I wouldn't say it's totally useless, but true - it's far from a guarantee of the car's history and quality.

 

I think it all depends on the context of the exact car. Some of the earlier cars may have shotty historical records. If it's lower miles and corrabareted by inspection, should be less of an issue. What specific car are you looking at?

Cheers

 

How does this happen?

Simple, no data in, no data out.

Ferrari and Ferrari owners do not freely distribute vehicle history , so there is little data shared that Carfax could pick up on.

Carfax can only report what is out there to be shared.

If the car is registered in a state that does not have annual safety inspections, then there would be nothing to report.

Ferrari does not share GMS history with Carfax. so nothing to be reported. ( Contacting a Dealership you have personal history with may provide you with GMS history , client paid services would only be available from the Dealership that performed the work ) I cannot see Ferrari of Denver service history for example and they cannot see mine.

I can tell you that I absolutely do NOT share client vehicle history with CarFax

I also do not share vehicle history unless 1. Personally approved by a seller 2. Proof of ownership provided by the person requesting.

If a body shop performed work that was paid for by the owner, there is nothing to be shared with Carfax

I have witnessed cars that show accident history that absolutely did not have an accident as well as cars that were in a severe accident, that did not show on carfax.

So, would I personally be worried by a clean , clear, simple Carfax..... No , but again, I put zero to no weight in the accuracy of Carfax...


S

 

I don't know what "GMS history" means?

But the carfax in question doesn't even show the import of the car, nor the intitial sale of the car nor any registration events (initial or annual). I've not seen a carfax like that before this one in this thread.

The issue the OP is raising isn't "hey, should I rely on carfax?" (despite all of us continuing to answer that question)

Its a subtly different question (that he has asked more clearly in subsequent posts).

To wit - a carfax that doesn't even show the initial import and sale and registration (forget service and repair, we all know service and repair don't always show up)? That's rare and thus odd.

Trying to figure out what that could mean is 1 of his questions.

The other question he has is more difficult to answer; "will buyers care about that odd carfax". My answer is that some buyers will care (as the OP does by bringing the issue here). What portion of buyers and how much will the odd carfax impact ability to resell are speculation of high order, so not really knowable. But there are lots of 458's out there and my suspicion is - like many criteria on these cars - many buyers will simply move on to a car without anything "odd" in its history/presentation.

 

GMS = Factory Service / Free Service on 2012 and newer Ferrari's

S

 

Hello Rory, my apologies that I missed that link.

Assuming it is this car: https://www.ferrarimaseratiofatlanta.com/2013-ferrari-458-italia--c-1824.htm

I would think the previous owner or dealership would have full service records. Maybe not. I would start there. As others have said, CARFAX doesn't pick up everything. Most purchasers I know just use CARFAX as one info point. So to answer your original question, I don't think it's a show stopper to have no CARFAX info.

I think what will be more valuable is actual receipts, a full PPI, and a full paint, frame inspection.

Of course you'll never be 100% sure it was accident/lemon free. Even substantial damage may sometimes not be reported to insurance and/or authorities. So having g a full robust CARFAX is never a guarantee of provenance.

There is a thread here (search Dansage) where a dealer said a 458 had no accidents, and later found to be not true. Didn't show up on CARFAX of course, only inspection (after the purchase) was this discovered.

I think you see where I'm going.

Best wishes.

 

Rory - before walking away from such cars, call the selling dealer (if an authorized ferrari dealer) and tell them your concern and have them figure it out. They can check MODIS or some system they have or call Ferrari of North America to learn where the car was imported and first sold (and maybe even serviced, at least for warranty and recall items which are tracked nationwide by Ferrari and all dealers have access to that warranty/recall info I believe. I know they can find the warranty "in service" date details). And, if another dealer does show up on the carfax at some earlier point, call them too and ask the same sorts of questions. I'm sure there is an answer to the mystery of the car's initial history...just gotta find it. It may be nothing...or...

 

Maybe (as already mentioned) because Carfax isn't as comprehensive as you seem to hope/think it is...?

 

I purchased a car (not an exotic) on the strength of an excellent CarFax report in conjunction with the selling dealership stating that the vehicle, which they sold new, serviced exclusively throughout its life, took back in on trade, worked on, and listed for sale, was in excellent condition. After taking delivery, it didn't drive very well at all, so I had it inspected by an independent shop and my local authorized dealership - they both told me (completely independently of each other) that the chassis was so rusted out that it had lost all structural integrity and that the body of the car was not meaningfully attached to the chassis since most of the body mounts had rotted away and fallen off. I was advised that it was unsafe to drive in its current condition and, if I could even find a replacement chassis, the repair costs were estimated to be nearly twice the value of the vehicle. All this despite the CarFax saying that there were no structural deficits reported. The dealership stonewalled saying they'd sold a car "as is" and it was now clearly my problem. I had to hire attorneys to sue the dealership for fraud and misrepresentation in order to force them to reverse the transaction and recover my costs incurred as a result of the deception.

Bottom line is: CarFax or AutoCheck can only tell you what is reported to by dealerships and repair shops. If the dealerships or repair shops are motivated to withhold information from CarFax or AutoCheck, then you will be misled by the report. Always have an independent inspection conducted on any used car before purchase.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

Asking for service records will nearly always result in a “no, we don’t do that”.

Asking for the proof/history of recall campaigns and for the original selling dealership should be provided.

That said, I don’t fight or work hard to give my money to anyone. Plenty of cars out there.

 

Hey , Rory... you are thinking too much , go enjoy the damn car... :-D

Based upon the VIN in post# 18 above

I can confirm that the car has been serviced in 2016, 2017, and 2018

There are no " red flags " that I can see.

Both campaigns have been performed. ( Front latch and airbag )

S