Challenge car for tracking | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Challenge car for tracking

Discussion in 'Tracking & Driver Education' started by Scott Archibald, Mar 9, 2019.

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  1. gatorgreg

    gatorgreg Formula 3

    Dec 13, 2004
    1,863
    NAPLES
    My theory is Ferrari does not care about gentleman racing or the Ferrari challenge series. It does not make any money. It is a pain in the butt for Ferrari. They do it because wealthy customers demand it.
    Ferrari does not build the challenge cars or the GT3 cars. They are built by a subcontractor called Michelotto. They don't even run the series, IMSA does and dealers do not run the cars anymore. The racing is subcontracted out. BTW Dealers hate the series. It is a waste of time, resource and money. Everyone wants the series to go away accept wealthy customers.

    The cars have to get faster and safer. The faster you go the more complicated the cars become. Therefore, they are moving into a GT3 style platform. It makes dollar sense for Michelotto because they build both the challenge and the GT3 race cars.

    The future for the challenge cars is more computers and GT3 adjustability. This will further separate the challenge cars from the street cars. The 458 is the first of the GT3 generation.
     
    Manda racing likes this.
  2. 95spiderman

    95spiderman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2003
    15,057
    ny
    why do you say the cars have to get faster?
     
  3. gatorgreg

    gatorgreg Formula 3

    Dec 13, 2004
    1,863
    NAPLES
    It’s the natural of the sport. Customers demand faster cars. Faster lap times. These cars will move closer to a GT3 format.
     
  4. 95spiderman

    95spiderman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2003
    15,057
    ny
    Speed is secondary. Should be a venue to prove their street cars are capable as race cars.
    Real fun would be having race series w all exotic manufacturers fielding their cars against each other. Tributo, 720, performante, gt2rs, zr1. All completely stock except for safety equipment, pads, tires. Any cheating and expelled 1 yr, 2nd offense and permanently banned. Would get more interest than current lemans
     
    Challenge likes this.
  5. gatorgreg

    gatorgreg Formula 3

    Dec 13, 2004
    1,863
    NAPLES
    Pirelli World Challenge is the platform. It was started because drivers got tired of getting tickets with their street cars. True story.
     
  6. chrixxx

    chrixxx Formula Junior
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 22, 2004
    971
    Lucerne
    Full Name:
    Chris
    If you believe that Ferrari doesnt make any money from Customer GT Racing or Challenge you are totally wrong...
     
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  7. gatorgreg

    gatorgreg Formula 3

    Dec 13, 2004
    1,863
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    Do dealers make more money racing challenge or selling street car?

    You are racing under Corsa Clienti program. Yes. That does make the factory money. It is also a great test platform for new technology.

    Do you think the competition GT cars make Ferrari money? That I don't know. You would know.
     
  8. windsock

    windsock Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 29, 2006
    1,066
    The Challenge program makes the factory a great deal of money and the durability testing of their product is paid for by the drivers. Done right a dealer makes fair money with the program with car and parts sales. If you lump in the Motorsports bonus from Ferrari and extra car allocations it is a money maker.
     
    mdrums and ewright like this.
  9. gatorgreg

    gatorgreg Formula 3

    Dec 13, 2004
    1,863
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    Ferrari makes more money selling T-shirts than on motorsports.
     
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  10. gatorgreg

    gatorgreg Formula 3

    Dec 13, 2004
    1,863
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  11. Ingenere

    Ingenere F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Dec 11, 2001
    6,336
    On the Limit
    Full Name:
    Dino
    Ahhh. The Challenge Series. I affectionately call it the "I love me series".

    It is massively expensive. No prize money. No exposure. The only qualifications to run are deep pockets. With the amount of carnage that goes on every weekend in this series, they are making a pile of money.
     
    mdrums, Schatten and boxerman like this.
  12. SPEED WORKS

    SPEED WORKS Rookie

    Apr 25, 2007
    31
    Orlando, FL
    Full Name:
    Bill Fulkrod
  13. mdrums

    mdrums Formula 3

    Jun 11, 2006
    2,172
    Tampa FL
    As street cars you propose…the GT2RS would obliterate the cars you lost….I like the list though and it would be fun seeing street cars in stock form with safety roll cage and 6pt harness actually racing
     
  14. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
    4,839
    France
    Racing road cars is typically not sustainable - but the roscar series mixes "challenge-like" cars of different brands, and is probably as close as possible as what you're thinking about: https://roscar.fr/ (sorry it's in French)
     
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  15. gatorgreg

    gatorgreg Formula 3

    Dec 13, 2004
    1,863
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    Porsche is lightyears ahead of Ferrari with many options for the track day user. The new GT3 cars are amazing. The one issue with the new Porsches is the tub. If you crash the car even so slightly you will be replacing the tub or the chassis of the car. The term is called "tubbed or tubbing". You hear guys at the track say, I tubbed the car. It means they had to replace the chassis of the car which is not cheap. Other than that, Porsche is a perfect track car.
     
  16. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
    4,839
    France
    The GT3 and GT3 RS used to be bargains as track cars - now they've been caught by financial speculation and Porsche has somewhat adjusted the prices accordingly, so that the Cayman GT4 are the new typical track cars...
    But Porsche stays at the forefront also at the step above, a GT3 Cup is most probably a better track car than whatever Ferrari Challenge.
     
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  17. wthensler

    wthensler F1 Rookie
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    Apr 27, 2015
    3,149
    Gator Country, FL
    Full Name:
    William
    Lol, I go out and buy a 458 Challenge Evo, and now you tell me this…….

    I’ve seen a bunch of ‘tubbed’ cars, including a few weekends ago at Road Atlanta. A shame, it happened on the last session of the day on Sunday.

    I’ve heard binned and bricked, not sure the meaning is quite the same, but not good regardless.

    To @LVP488 and his point about the GT4, they have become quite popular. I’m fine where I’m at for the present time.
     
    Gh21631 likes this.
  18. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    26,288
    socal
    What is different about the new gt3 that causes this? Older series GT3 were the proverbial indestructible brick shut house.
     
  19. gatorgreg

    gatorgreg Formula 3

    Dec 13, 2004
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    I don't want a Porsche. The 458 CH is the best track car. You just have to understand the car and have the proper equipment to run it. You have to be willing to understand the track day parts are not available at Autozone. The 458 is fantastic.
     
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  20. gatorgreg

    gatorgreg Formula 3

    Dec 13, 2004
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    It's the unibody aluminum structure of the chassis. If the tub is compromised that's it. You are done. The Lambo super trofeo is the same but with aluminum parts inside of the a carbon chassis. You break the aluminum parts the chassis is done. Ask me how I know this? The bits and pieces don't like fire either. :)
     
    Texas Forever likes this.
  21. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    26,288
    socal
    Performance isn't cheap!
     
  22. wthensler

    wthensler F1 Rookie
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    Apr 27, 2015
    3,149
    Gator Country, FL
    Full Name:
    William
    Fair enough……..(and I don’t want a Porsche either)

    I’ve been more than satisfied with the 458 Spider on track, it’s not nearly as fragile as people may think. And it hasn’t been a trackside nightmare at all. Granted it’s a street car, but still…….

    The game plan for now is to have my local mechanic service the 458 C between track events, let him change fluids, pads, check adjustments, tighten everything to proper specs., etc. I trust him and he is as passionate about these cars as I am.

    I’ll bring enough tools to change out tires and pads, if it becomes too much, there’s always trackside support.

    Ultimately, it’ll boil down to the fun factor versus additional responsibility of keeping it on track, Since I’m not racing, I don’t need to play by all the strict preventative maintenance rules, but of course I want a safe car.

    This year will be about 10-14 total events, so I should get some good data!
     
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  23. gatorgreg

    gatorgreg Formula 3

    Dec 13, 2004
    1,863
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    If you really want to have fun, unlock the full potential of the car and increase the safety factor, you need to have a team support you. The car deserves to be setup for each event. A professional driving coach can help you.

    The car is so dependent on tire pressure even one PSI can change the entire handling of the car. We would joke about the 458. Pirelli designed the car not Ferrari because it is so dependent on the tires.
     
    wthensler likes this.
  24. GLENN@TEAM AI

    GLENN@TEAM AI Karting
    Sponsor

    Jun 8, 2018
    221
    Full Name:
    Glenn Butler
    @LVP488 says the Porsche cup car is a better track car - if by better you mean faster, then you may be right, but it should be given all the bespoke Porsche Motorsports parts that the cars use. The Cup cars are a pure bred race machine, while Challenge cars are much closer to a street car than the Porsche is. I would argue that an older Challenge car is cheaper to track than a Cup car, given that the drivetrain is the same as the street car. Blow the motor in a 430 or 458 Challenge, then simply call a dismantler and get one out of a wreck - atleast that is a possibility. With a Porsche, just pick up the phone and call Porsche Motorsports, not to mention all the other expensive Motorsports parts that will need replacing after timing out!
     
    Thecadster likes this.
  25. fboutlaw

    fboutlaw Karting

    Dec 3, 2014
    237
    Woodside, CA
    You mentioned Sonoma Raceway, there is a business there Competizione Motors which offers storage, maintenance, track day support, and coaching... a full arrive and drive experience. I'd highly recommend them and know a few people that use them at Sonoma.

    If you were looking at a competition car. The biggest thing are time and tools. I went with a Mclaren GT4 car instead of a Ferrari Challenge, but same general issues. You need a truck, trailer, air tools, and some patience if you want to run the car yourself (which I do). It's not all that different to trailering any racecar, but you're paying the Ferrari tax for parts.
     

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