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Challenge car prices

Discussion in 'Challenge/GT Cars' started by 87testa, Dec 13, 2015.

  1. 87testa

    87testa Karting

    Dec 24, 2006
    243
    Toronto, Ontario
    The Challenge cars represent a small market niche car when compared to their respective models. There are so few cars available on the planet which makes pricing difficult not to mention what condition they are in. So if we take a hypothetical car which is in driver condition ready for the track what would it be worth? We should also include whether it is a North American price or European price as this presents another discrepancy. Let's get some opinions on pricing for the various models.
     
  2. Robb

    Robb F1 World Champ
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    #2 Robb, Dec 13, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2015
    I think there are many, many factors in trying to pinpoint a challenge car's value so you will see a big range. There is a very large gap on what people can find out there varying from:

    A. cars that are very worn and haven't been touched the last 10 years just sitting - likely have body damage and paint needs
    B. cars that continue to race and race again each season with the only items being updated being critical wear items - so many of the aesthetics and comfort items are lackluster
    C. cars that have been raced but meticulously maintained both mechanically and aesthetically or somewhere in between depending on the owner's pocketbooks and enthusiasm / sponsoring shop
    D. cars that have actually never been on the track and in good to excellent condition like a street car or time capsule

    Just trying to pinpoint the number of challenge cars that were produced (and raced) has been difficult - although not impossible... :D So the rarity also will likely factor into the equation

    It used to be that a used challenge car would be priced just slightly lower than a street car of the same model, but that is just no longer the case for 348 challenge and F355 challenge.

    360 challenge cars seem to be about the same price as a 360 F1 street car but lower than the gated 6-speeds.

    F430 challenge cars seem around the same price as early F430 street cars.

    Here is my pricing spread of what I have seen listed and sold - verified for recent transactions in the US for 2015. I will let others fill in the blanks for other prices around the world or on the most current 458 challenge cars since I do not follow them.

    348 challenge $ 65-85k+++
    F355 challenge $ 70k - 150k+ (two have recently sold for 130k and 135k, but two in VERY needy condition (think big dents and cracked bodywork) have sold for 60k and 65k each just 2 months ago.)
    360 challenge $ 60k to 85k+
    F430 challenge $ 100 to 120k+
    458 challenge $ 180k ?

    Hope this helps. Some of these cars will be found based on who you know and where you go...

    Robb
     
  3. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    Are you looking for a particular model? I know a few for sale in if they are not spoken for already. Big shuffle just happened this week before end of year.
     
  4. rperrina

    rperrina Rookie

    Dec 26, 2003
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    @SoCal1 I'm looking for Challenge cars and would love to hear about the cars you have access to. Feel free to PM me.

    Thanks in advance.
     
  5. Andi355

    Andi355 Formula Junior
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    Sep 26, 2005
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  6. mclaudio

    mclaudio Formula 3

    Dec 13, 2003
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    There was a 355 Ch that sold at a European auction for over $150k i.e. $158k IIRC. I remember some claimed to be sold at higher prices but I personally have not verified.

    To answer OP's question: I have what you may consider a driver condition, street-registered 355Ch that is mechanically track-ready. The interior aesthetic is one I haven't addressed as I lean more towards preserving the race patina versus fully restoring. For me to consider parting with this car, it would take north of $150k.
     
  7. SupercarGuru

    SupercarGuru F1 Rookie
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    I would buy all 44 348 Challenge cars at $60k! LOL

    I think they are trading closer to $90k-140k.

    I know of 1 that was sold for $135k and another car for $100k.
     
  8. Richard Tuck

    Richard Tuck Karting
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    Nov 17, 2015
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    Are the factory built f355 challenge cars only built from 1998 Onwards? If so would that mean every one before that was a car that was modified by ferrari for the challenge series?
     
  9. ExcelsiorZ

    ExcelsiorZ Formula 3

    Nov 7, 2003
    1,064
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    Factory built 355CH commenced at least in 1997. They were supposed to be MSO only (Manufacturter's Statement of Origin) as they were built in 1997 but had OBD1 drivetrains....which of course would be a problem in an era of mandated OBD2.
     
  10. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    Exactly.

    Folks will just not part with them and folks are in line waiting to buy.
    After all it is where Challenge started.

    348 may surpass 355 value next year with all the hype from FNA about the Challenge Series
    Kind of like having one of Fireball Roberts NASCAR's
     
  11. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

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    It's an interesting question - which is more valuable, being road legal or being factory built? They can't really be both (at least not in the US) without jumping through some hoops with questionable legality as the factory cars never came with a title.
     
  12. Robb

    Robb F1 World Champ
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    I like the 348 challenge cars a lot - maybe my brother and I can pick one up to restore in the new year to go with our other # 91 car.

    There were more than 150 348 challenge cars that raced in the series worldwide so we all need to stop using old information and numbers - they are still very rare but let's be as accurate as possible - even though Ferrari SPA makes that somewhat mystifying. :D Hopefully we can update the information on wikipedia and put out articles in Cavallino and Forza in the new year to help with this.

    The F355, 360, F430, and 458 had at least 300 or more of each model that raced as challenge cars in the series.

    Robb



     
  13. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    Hmmmm street legal or track only

    Challenge series was started for gentleman racers to drive to the track, race then drive home. In true fashion of that era.

    That seems to have ended in 1996

    1994 and 1995 cars IMHO are the vehicles to get. Anything after that was another deal and all will come out in the wash

    :)
     
  14. SupercarGuru

    SupercarGuru F1 Rookie
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    Robb I have been told by a few well known 348 Challenge enthusiasts that the factory built 32 TBs and 12 TS cars.
     
  15. Ky1e

    Ky1e Formula 3

    Mar 4, 2011
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    I was looking for a 458C. Here's what I found-- 458C that could be had for $165K-$180K (non-evo) and the ones with evo's were asking considerably more (the EVO kit costs around $40K), bringing them to around the $200-210K mark.

    I just spoke with the owner of Dream Racing in Las Vegas this weekend (12/12/15). He started the Ferrari Corse Pilota) and he said you can get them in Europe for less than you can in the USA. He was insinuating something like $180K or less for a 458c Evo.

    I just bought a Porsche dedicated track car to try out and after some seat time on slicks I'll re-start my search for a 458c evo.
     
  16. mclaudio

    mclaudio Formula 3

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    #16 mclaudio, Dec 14, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Robb has done a lot of work on this to clear up confusion. Perhaps he can best answer this question. AFAIK, there were factory challenge cars prior to 1998 as per this article.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  17. mclaudio

    mclaudio Formula 3

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    They can be both. Street-legal, factory-ordered as a Challenge car, and Challenge race history - the sweet spot. For the US F355s, the 95 model is it. The 348 Challenge cars can have all three attributes as well.
     
  18. Robb

    Robb F1 World Champ
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    Very Respectfully,

    Unfortunately, that is only one (old) piece of information on the 348 challenge series for one point in time that did not include ALL the US cars or the rest of the 348 challenge cars in the world. Not sure why we can't move away from these incomplete numbers when Ferrari's racing records, PR, and even yearbooks prove otherwise. It's only a matter of a few months before we will all see this corrected on wikipedia in particular which so many rely on for accurate info. That may be one reason for the misinformation.

    So we all could do a big service to enthusiasts everywhere if we would attach an asterisk to the old count or simply stop using them. :D and clarify the history of the whole series, all the cars, and all the drivers. Let's all become experts on the series. I just talked to one of the vintage challenge series champions on the phone last week. That was fantastic. Great stories to preserve.

    It's not like we should be comparing these challenge cars to 250 GTO's or Lusso's... with 40 or 300 made because you also have the thousands of regular street cars falling behind those in the case of all the challenge car models.

    Good Story
    The factory made 45 ID plates to attach to "some" of the US imported 348 challenge cars. Many of these plates were never attached to cars originally and sat in the Ferrari of Houston facility for decades on the shelf. Some had the factory installed features but no ID plate. Some had a plate but no challenge parts. Many of the other cars that did race in the series and had factory installed features never got a plate outside the US. But tracing back serial numbers for the cars that raced and their driver's, put the count at three times this old number.

    All good I hope for us all to know the real deal.

    I'm not trying to lower values of the cars or discredit their rarity - I like knowing the real history and numbers - and I think buyers, owners, and collectors will value the cars even more once they all know the real deal. I own one "Type A" F355 challenge car. I could sit by and let people claim that it's one of 72 in the world as reported in Cavallino and on "wikipedia" and many, many, for-sale ads - but I'd rather know that there are over 300 F355 challenge cars out there as "real numbers." These aren't clones. Over 300 "raced" in the series. For 348's - over 150 "raced" in the series.

    Hopefully there isn't a need to spin this as the history of each car alone is amazing.

    I think the sooner all enthusiasts know the real history - the more concrete the values will become and the higher they will go on the cars. I think we are all pretty close on the value numbers we see the cars selling for in this thread and they are going up monthly. :)

    Robb





     
  19. 87testa

    87testa Karting

    Dec 24, 2006
    243
    Toronto, Ontario
    Thanks for the offer but I own a 348 Challenge car with race history. I was trying to stimulate some conversation regarding values as I think there is demand for these cars and prices are on the rise but we have little documentation about market values. The enthusiasts in this section have all made valid points. The more info we collect about these cars the better it is as it is nice to preserve the history of the Challenge series.
     
  20. 87testa

    87testa Karting

    Dec 24, 2006
    243
    Toronto, Ontario
    How many street legal 355 Challenge cars are out there?
     
  21. Robb

    Robb F1 World Champ
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    145 give or take for the world.

    Robb

     
  22. Ferrari 308 Vetro

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    #22 Ferrari 308 Vetro, Dec 15, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  23. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    Understood. I agree it's very hard to price these today. The prices are all over the place but going up.

    These are SoCal located cars
    Currently I know of a few 348's I put offers of 100us and no bites, nothing.
    355's seem to have a huge swing 100-325us. Only the 100-150 cars are selling.
    95 355's forget it everyone is on hold with them.

    Disclosure:
    I own 1 94 348 CH and 2 95-355 CH.

    I know of a bakers dozen more of these local to me and everyone is on hold. One sent to Italy for a restoration at the factory $$$$$$
     
  24. SupercarGuru

    SupercarGuru F1 Rookie
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    I have a very serious offer on my 348 Challenge car of $120k and am considering it! I was going to start on a restoration but FINALLY closed a deal on a car I have been chasing for a year!
     
  25. Robb

    Robb F1 World Champ
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    Great information on the 348 challenge market. Thanks for the update.

    Robb



     

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