Changing Front Wheel Bearings On an 80 308

Thanks guys,

This is all useful information, and I appreciate it. I have press and 2 bearing kits but I was also wondering how you get the round disc inside the smaller hole without bending space and time. Plus I love my press have only used it about 5 times since I bought it and it certainly has brute force but not much subtley and can destroy parts faster than banging on them with a hammer. The outer bearing is the smaller one. I will experiment and see what happens. A good 4x4 racing buddy told me in no uncertain terms to clean the oil on the bearings off first with carb cleaner then brake cleaner before I pack them so I am still weighing what to do about that..... I only do this ever 13 years so I want to do it right

Thanks again!!

Rob

 

Not to get off topic but,
You've got pretty nice carpet in your garage. Or Umm, does your wife know you have Ferrari parts in the house. I can tell you from experience that is a bad idea.

 

I can't see any harm that could come from cleaning off that shipping oil.

I also can't see how it could be harmful leaving it there. It will mix in with the bearing grease in a matter of minutes on the road.

So, to be safe, clean it off. It never even crossed my mind when I replaced mine.

good luck
jwise

 

OOPs,
Short in headset. ;^)

Forgot that you have to drive one of the outer races out. Then you can press the other race out.

Use a brass drift ( round brass rod with the end cut straight across), not a screwdriver or pry bar.

The brass drift won't hurt anything if you happen to slip.
The larger diameter you use for the drift rod the better as it won't break up as fast. I've got a 3/4" drift that I use, but would really like a 1" one. The race will want to cock a bit & jam, so use light taps on alternate sides of the race. I have good luck using a triangular pattern.

The edges of the drift's end will get beaten up, in the process. Usually you can get a couple of races out before you've chewed up all around both ends of the drift. When it gets too bad, I just chuck mine in the lathe & clean the ends up. However, you can use a bench grinder, file, etc. to restore the shape of the end.

You could also use an Al rod, but unless it's 7075, it'll get beaten up faster than a brass one will.

Hmm, guess you could even form the end into a crescent that more closely fits the edge of the race. Probably the end would last longer as the force is spread over a larger area.

 

Friends,

I am about 3 weeks into my wheel bearing odyssey and have been taking pictures and notes and came upon a problem. I put everything back together I used my press and all the races went in smoothly and there was no drama until I put the hub on the spindle and tightened the nut down. I noticed about an 1/8" gap between the hub and the spindle on both wheels.
I checked the bearings they were the same size as the ones I took out, the spacer and seal went in smoothly, however I dont understaand how the seal works as it lays flat against the inner race, seems like it would ride on the spindle?

I dont remember this gap being there before but it looks wrong. The nut on the front before and after has the about the same number of threads so I am confused. Can anybody look at their car and seee if there is this much of a gap between the hub and spindle?

I also used one of those cone wheel bearing packers and not sure if it works that well on these tapered bearings, Is there a trick to using it. I just kept pumping until I saw some grease oozing from the bearings but since the inner race is solid I am not sure how much grease got in there, should I do them by hand. Do you put the bearing in upside down? I am thinking I need to take the whole thing apart again to check it?

I also put a new cartridge of Redlline CV 2 grease in my lincoln grease gun for the second hub and even though It took me two years to go through the last one including packing my CV joints the new tube was empty by the time I was finished?? I did pump the whole inner chamber full in the hub. I think the gun malfuntioned will check it out tomorrow.

I need some guidance!

Rob
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Friends,

Can anyone confirm the 1/8" gap between the hub and the spindle before I remove everything?

I put nut, washer, outer bearing, outer race, inner race, inner bearing, spacer, oil seal.??????

Rob

 

Robert,
Which way is the seal facing? It should face outwards toward the hub. I don't remember the gap, but I focus on where & how the bearings seat.

I use a cone type bearing packer, It's made for that style of bearing.

The cone should seal against the edge of the bearing retainer, so the grease is forced thru the gap between the inside of the retainer & the race.

I pump grease in until there's a bout 1/8" or so of grease extruded out around all the bearings.

BTW, wad up a piece of paper towel or Al foil to take up the space inside the inner race. Otherwise you pump a lot of grease into it that just has to be cleaned up. (Gotta make me a little insert one of these days).

My experience has been that the packers do a great job, better than most hand packs, in a lot less time.

.

 

I put the seal in as I took the other one out with the metal part on top and the seal looked like it was riding on the inner race of the inner bearing. BTW it sits flush with the hub. I wish I had took pictures of that area as i took 100 pics just does not show the gap there.

 

OG Guys,

I need your help! I am going to put this together tomorrow and I dont want to mess up.

I removed everything and placed the old bearings and seal on the spindle and now I understand how it works. The inside bearing races ride on shoulders on the spindle and the seal and gap are correct. My problem is that I torqued the nut to Ric's spec which I had to convert to inch pounds as the 1/2" drive i have has the 18 ft/lbs. at the bottom end of the scale so I wanted a more accurate reading so I converted the ft/lbs. to inch/pounds and got:

18 ft /pounds = 216 inch/pounds
11 ft /pounds = 132 inch/pounds

here is my question problem?

At the above specs the wheel would barely turn and felt tight. My brother in law the drag racer said that it will loosen up, but if too tight it will heat up and ruin the spindle? Since I do not have enough experience I need some input from you guys.

Should I go with the specs and hope it loosens up or should I go by feel and assume that the tolerances stay the same? before i remove the bearings i could wiggle the wheel or disc brake about 1/16", at the above specs it is tight.

Thanks for your input, I am writing a detailed account of this with lots of pics. so if you help me I can hopefeully help others down the line.

Rob

 

Rob are these staight roller bearings or tapered roller bearings. I cant tell from the pictures!
I ask because there is a huge differenece in how to set these up. Do it the wrong way round, for either set will F*** it but big time.
Damian

 

they are tapered bearing here is a pic of the old ones where they ride
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Friends,

Here is how my saga is going. After anguishing about the torque settings, here is what I did. I torqued the nut to 18 ft lbs, then after rotating the wheel for a while to the lower 11 ft/lbs. I then with the wheel and rotor on, slowly loosened the nut until I could feel the smallest amount of free play. Then I tightened it up till it was gone. Then I slowly loosened it a few degrees at a time until I could feel he smallest of free play. I then marked the nut and spindle with a sharpie, removed the wheel and tried to set the nut. Here is where I think I encountered some problems. First off I had an extra set of nuts so I felt if I messed one up I could use one of the spares.
I tried a round flat 1/8” punch as Verell suggested but I could not get any results so I then tried a small chisel. I felt I screwed up as it chopped though the nut and even thought the pic above shows that’s how the previous tech had the bottom I felt it was not safe. I was amazed how easy the nut came off even though the top and bottom was smashed in!

I made two small tools out of some punches. One small chisel I rounded off and one small prick punch I rounded off also. I put the rotor and wheel back on and reset the torque as I did above and even played with the failed nut for a while till I felt confident I would not screw up the nut with my new home made tools.

After doing both wheels I still feel that the nuts are not safe. I ordered four more overnight from GT Car Parts. A good mechanic friend came over and laughed at me as he said the nuts were fine but I am afraid that since this is the only thing that wholes the entire hub and wheel on it needs to be secured better. I am hoping that you guys will look at this and tell me what you think. I know that the nut cannot rotate because of the slotted washer underneath but I was amazed how easy the nut came off that was set. Below is a couple of pics of my RF nut, please look at it and tell me if you think I should redo it and what kind of tool I should use to indent it.

Dave at GT said you only needed to indent one slot and all you needed to do was make the nut not round any more. I drive my car at speed and do not want the wheel to come off!!

Anyway please give me your suggestions. I am going to try to finish the car up tomorrow so any help you can provide soon will help!!

Rob
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Just an FYI on this subject. These may be Ferrari, but they could just as well be a boat trailer, or a 1965 Chevy. Its all the same technology. I have read front wheel bearing specs for so many cars over the years its not funny. But my Dad had me out doing this stuff when I was a kid. Back in the day wheel bearings got repacked ever 10-20K miles. Or whenever they needed new brake shoes.

I have never used a press or even a brass punch to knock out the races, but I degres that Verell is probably being pretty safe using a brass punch. I always use/used a steel punch. Just back and forth round and round and knocked them out.

Once they are back in, however you pressed, pounded or pushed them in, most old books want you to "set" them. No matter what you read for a spec, it all works out the same. I was taught, and after trying to be so "technical" reading all these specs I just kinda went back to doing it the old way.

Crank the nut down good and tight, real tight. I have seen some specs give figures around 100 foot pounds. I just reef them down hard with a socket wrench. Now take a big heavy leather mallet and smack the hub a few hard blows a couple times while you rotate the hub. Loosen the nut some, spin the hub, retighten the nut down real hard again and smack it a few more times while you turn it. You usually will feel it loosens up and turns more freely. While you think you got the races down tight, this makes darn sure they are down tight and straight. Now loosen up the nut and set your freeplay. I like to put just a little amount of tightness on the nut just past loose to keep zero play on the hub. Like maybe an 1/8 to 1/4 turn depending on how it feels. Robert, your spindle nuts are fine and wont come off. Unless you want to go back and make sure the bearings are set.

 

I agree the spindle nuts are fine. I think you are overthinking this a bit. Those nuts are so close to the center that there is not much centifugal force exerted on them. It's also why they made them right and left handed threads. While travelling "at speed" the nut would have to spin in the opposite direction to come off. The indent only needs to be enough to keep it from spinning freely basically.

I only indented mine on one side (that's the way the old ones came off) when I re-packed my bearings and they held for over a year "at speed".


.

 

I think the reason I was drawn to Internet Ferrari sites was the technical information available from experts and novices alike. Whether the other members know it or not this is the most important part of this Internet Ferrari community. I feel that I have learned many things here and hopefully others have learned from my mistakes, and hopefully I have also. This intro is special because of the problems I encountered today at the end of my what was to be a simple wheel bearing replacement.

I spent the morning putting on a 18mm rear anti-roll bar, which will be another post and chapter in My “Ferrari for Dummies” series. I was then going to bleed all my brakes after assembling the front hubs rotors and miscellaneous bits from yesterday. I am still concerned about the safety of the spline wheel nuts, (see previous post) but decided not to be too paranoid (Hell what’s a wheel coming off at 100 mph!).

Anyway I whip out my ultra cool brakeman bleeder and proceed to do all the wheels starting at the RR. I end up at the RF and have a steady leak coming from the bottom of the hard line I had so much trouble getting together yesterday. I tightened it as much as I could and when that did not stop the leak I drained the reservoir and took the hard line off. It did not look so bad so as an experiment I reversed the line, filled up the reservoir and to my horror both fittings were leaking. I have been told that if you strip or screw up the caliper hole that it is a real problem so I removed everything on that side and here is what I found. I hope that once again that some of you will respond with some suggestions!

I am posting several pictures of the caliper hole and the fitting. The threads are fine and there are some concentric circles deep in the hole. Since I am not an expert and never have had a caliper apart I am once again hoping some of you will look at the pictures and tell me it is hopefully acceptable.

On the bottom hard line caliper end fitting I found not only very fine cracks in the nut that holds the flared fitting in the caliper hole and on closer inspection found some very small hairline cracks near the end of the line itself (Could that make it leak, drip, drip, drip one drop every two seconds?). That makes sense and after talking to a few friends that seems like I need to replace the line. Cool! What is troubling me is that after switching the line around I was still getting leakage from the caliper hole, as well as from the cracked line which ended up in the end of the rubber brake line on top.

Here is my plan, order a new line and see if that fixes it. I am sure that it will be expensive so if any of you look at the pictures of the caliper hole and see something amiss let me know soon! I would hate to get a new line just to have it leak due to a problem with the caliper!

Thanks again in advance for all you help. I was really looking forward to driving the car after having it apart for a month on this wheel bearing service, and kind of bummed I could not go to Monterrey, so thanks again for any advice that will get e on the road.

I think my main mistake was taking off the lower fitting trying to hook up the line after replacing the caliper. I should have just loosened it and before fitting the caliper on the rotor. I should have tried to get the top fitting inserted first, maybe with them bottom caliper bolt in place! Instead I spent about an hour or two wrestling with the line, unfortunately damaging it and hopefully not the caliper!!!

Rob
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Can anyone tell me exactly what that fitting is called, what the thread pitch is and diameter of the line?

Thanks,

Rob

Shamille, sorry for hijacking your thread!

 

I dont know what size any of that stuff is, but its kinda sounding like you may have overtightened the fittings. They only need to be just past tight enough not to leak, not so tight you crush the flare end of the line. I notice on this #2 car that someone replaced those lines with somthing totally non original, as they look all kind of kinky, not with nice round curves. I guess when it comes to tubing you cant have both.

 

It turns out the lines are 5mm with a bubble flare on the end. Here is a picture of a double flare and the bubble flare, the bubble is on the left. The part was 9$ I bought 4 they are straight and you have to bend them, Wish me luck!!

Rob
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Robert- you may want to invest in one of these to make the job easier and avoid kinks when bending the tubing at sharp angles- tubing bender- $7.00 at Harbor Freight.
http://da.harborfreight.com/cpisearch/web/search.do?keyword=tubing+bender&Submit=Go
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I don't believe that either of those HF tools will help.

Those tubes have very small radius bends (~3/4"). Std tubing benders just can't do that small a radius.

I've got a cheap HW store bender that gets the bends down pretty close to size, then I bent it the rest of the way by hand. Next time I'll machine a tool just for these bends.

Robert,
A tip: If you make the new bends large enough for the calilper bolt heads to fit thru, then the tubes won't have to be removed next time.

As for crimping the nuts, the crimp is there to ensure that the nut can't vibrate loose, so doesn't have to withstand a lot of force.

 

you guys know me, even though I am broke if it is for dino.... so what if I have to eat cat food!! anyway this is what I bought, I hope they work! BTW my bolt was not in the way on either caliper, like an idiot I unhooked the top fitting and had to bend it back jsut to unhook it. I should have just unscrewed it and remove the caliper so I would not have had to tussle with it I spent at least 2 hours trying to get it back on with the caliper on!!! I think I should have put on the bottom caliper bolt then slid the caliper onto the rotor and as it came close the fittting would have just gone right in... well at least that is what I would do in retrospect. BTW the superglue was perfect on the spacers!

http://www.eastwoodco.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=2461&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=545&iSubCat=547&iProductID=2461

http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?itemID=10826&itemType=PRODUCT

 

I've seen those tubing pliars a dozen times & just didn't think of them. They look like they'll do the job.

You're right on that bending the hard lines & just aligning the parts to them as things go together avoids a lot of hassels & avoids crossed threads.

 

I know you guys are going to think I'm nuts but tomorrow I am going to try to bend the line to fix my cracked brake line. If I succeed I am going to remove the spindle nuts and re-torque the nuts to the factory settings even though it is allot tighter than most of you have suggested. I have received so many opposing sets of advice that I am going to have to trust the WSM, and cannot for the life of me figure out who is telling me what is correct. I have had seasoned mechanics and Ferrari dealer mechanics tell me the exact opposite information and I am so confused I am taking the easy way out.

Wht is wrong from following the book??

Rob
changing the timing belts were a piece of cake compared to this!!!!!

 

well i just finished and on a scale of 1-100 this was a 98, and I changed my timing gear bearings with the engine in the car. The Ferrari brake tubing part was thicker than all of the three benders I bought and or borrowed. the tubing pliers worker though. It is not as pretty as I was expecting it but it does not leak and the brakes seem to work!

I finally got the spline nuts to where I am not totally scared to drive the car but my suggestion to anyone who does this is USE A BIG HAMMER. I bought a 24 oz hammer and that was the only thing that would dent the nut to what I thought was at least as good as the ones I took off.

I reset the bearings like this, (sorry I threatened to use the WSM torques) I put the wheel on and torqued it to the specs 216 inch pounds,then re-torqued it to the lower spec 132 inch/pounds. them slowy loosened it until I got no free play then tightned it up about 1 - 2 degrees until I could not feel any movement then set the nuts.

I wish there was more consensus on how to really do this, I am curious what Rifleman would say. I was worried to make it to tight but this setting is about 30 degrees looser than the factory recommended setting, but they also say that there should be1/10 a mm of fee play so what is right?????? I took the car out for a spin and thought I heard a ringing noise, but I am extra paranoid after 2 months working on these bearings!! Hell they had about 1/8 free play for the last 13 years and it seemed ok. I am going to have to write a long write up on this proceedure!!!

Alls well that ends well. or is it? well I mean!!

Rob

 

Hi Rob
I also used a big hammer and a cold chisel to lock the nut shoulder into the groove. The one I took off was thoroughly in the groove. I ahve survived 2 track events so far with no sign of loosening off (and I do check before track days).
Also I used the WSM method of setting the tightness, including using the dial indicator. I generally follow the WSM unless my mechanic/mentor tells me otherwise.
I would check the heat of the shaft/bearing area and or grease loss once you have driven for a while. Be light on the brakes, otherwise you will also get heat from there. I doubt that the bearings should run hot, if they do then too tight for sure. (This is an opinion only)
Gerrit