Chassis 1C/10S Updated Information | Page 6 | FerrariChat

Chassis 1C/10S Updated Information

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by jawsalfa, Jun 28, 2008.

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  1. jawsalfa

    jawsalfa Karting

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    #126 jawsalfa, Jul 15, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    To be clear, it is not known that Bamford ever owned 1C/10S and it is plausable that neither did S. Nowack since he aggresively sought to buy the 1C/10S chassis from my father on more than one occasion in the 70s. We can't find any record of the 1C/10S chassis ownership prior to Desormeau (seller of 1C/10S to my father).
    Regarding the brakes...see 1947 photo and compare brakes to close-up from first posting. IMHO, it remains just as likely (perhaps even more likely) that these brakes remained on 1C/10S it's whole life as opposed to the theory that the 125 brakes were found in a bin and later put on this chassis.

    Another look at the cutaway for the hand crank in the 1947 chassis photo (albeit black and white) looks remarkably similar to that of 1C/10S (depth/style). Just this writer's observation...
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  2. t walgamuth

    t walgamuth Formula Junior

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    #127 t walgamuth, Jul 15, 2008
    It does not seem logical that early brakes would be fitted to a later chassis. The opposite would make sense though.

    Tom W
     
  3. jawsalfa

    jawsalfa Karting

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    #128 jawsalfa, Jul 15, 2008
    Would anyone who has a higher resolution photo (>70K) of the 1947/48 shop photo (the 3 chassis side-by-side) kindly post it? If not, no worries. Thanks. JAW
     
  4. Michael Muller

    Michael Muller Formula Junior

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    #129 Michael Muller, Jul 15, 2008
    Jim, basically I have no problem with the wine (despite the bet was old Dutch Genever against American Bourbon), but the distance in question was that between the rear crossbar and the center of the rear axle.
    Your estimate - 1 foot, my forecast - 6 inches / 15 cm....
     
  5. Michael Muller

    Michael Muller Formula Junior

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    #130 Michael Muller, Jul 15, 2008
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    .
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  6. jawsalfa

    jawsalfa Karting

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    #131 jawsalfa, Jul 15, 2008
    Thank you Michael.
     
  7. piloti

    piloti Formula 3
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    #132 piloti, Jul 15, 2008
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    I might have missed this, but has anyone commented on the holes in the bulkhead? Presumably they are for the horizontal magnetos that only the early cars had? Possibly indicating that this was a very early chassis?
    Nathan
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  8. jawsalfa

    jawsalfa Karting

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    #133 jawsalfa, Jul 15, 2008
    Nathan, I think that the 1C/10S Motto body (originally off of 002) is perhaps the only item reaching true consensus established here to date. I wish identifying the chassis was only so easy...
     
  9. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Veteran
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    #134 Jeff Kennedy, Jul 15, 2008
    Picking up on Nathan's comment on the bulkhead holes - it is possible to determine if the bulkhead is an original part to the Motto body or not?

    Jeff
     
  10. jawsalfa

    jawsalfa Karting

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    #135 jawsalfa, Jul 15, 2008
    The bulkhead configuration (as seen in the photo) is original to the best of our knowledge. Perhaps Jim might have information to confirm this, as he currently owns the car for which this motto body was originally fitted. The chassis, however, is another matter entirely.
     
  11. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Veteran
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    #136 Jeff Kennedy, Jul 15, 2008
    My thought here is that if the bulkhead dates to/was:

    A. Motto construction then we know nothing since that would all be 002C (Napolis' car).

    B. Is part of the original chassis and with the magneto holes that would be significant.

    C. The bulkhead and the frame cannot be placed together then we have two individual items each demanding further independent investigation as their origin may or may not be at the same time (AKA the parts bin theory).

    Jeff
     
  12. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #137 Napolis, Jul 15, 2008
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    Sorry I misunderstood you. Let me measure that. I was confused and thought you meant from cross bar to cross bar.

    Best


    002C Stamping
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  13. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #138 Napolis, Jul 15, 2008
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    Hummm. I assumed that bulkhead was from 002C's Motto body BUT 002C's bulkhead is attached to the chassis and seems to be original as it has an original stamping. What do you think Nathan??? Could that be an original 125 bulkhead?????????????
    I may be wrong thinking the bulkhead is Motto.
     
  14. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
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    #139 thecarreaper, Jul 15, 2008
    did Ferrari document the location of those stampings in the records from the 40's?

    why would someone who knew where the factory stamps were, pick those numbers and restamp an unknown chassis as such?

    seems at that time the cars were used race cars, and not worth much?


    fascinating history in this thread.

    makes you wonder what sort of bits the guys in the future will be scrambling over!
     
  15. jawsalfa

    jawsalfa Karting

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    #140 jawsalfa, Jul 15, 2008
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    Very interesting...
    The steering box stamping from 002 is M010. Would one therefore assume that M02 (stamping on 1C/10S) is earlier? Stamped M02 both on the end (shot in mirror) and on top as in Napolis' shot. Thank you for posting this.
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  16. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #141 Napolis, Jul 15, 2008

    That would make sense.
     
  17. jawsalfa

    jawsalfa Karting

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    #142 jawsalfa, Jul 15, 2008
    I'm just curious; however, did 01C/010I post any component stampings during the restoration? Are they published anywhere? Thanks.
     
  18. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #143 Napolis, Jul 15, 2008
    Not that I know of...
     
  19. superleggera

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    #144 superleggera, Jul 15, 2008
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  20. jawsalfa

    jawsalfa Karting

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    #145 jawsalfa, Jul 15, 2008
    Thanks.
     
  21. WilyB

    WilyB F1 Rookie
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    #146 WilyB, Jul 15, 2008
    Could we be witnessing the rebirth of the real Ferrari # 1?

    Wow.
     
  22. dretceterini

    dretceterini F1 Veteran

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    #147 dretceterini, Jul 16, 2008
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2008

    I don't know if Ferrari has such records or if anyone would be allowed to examine them. I personally have examined Gilco's records (some 15 years ago), and what exists on their website is about all they have on the chassis they built (regardless if for Ferrari or someone else) in the pre-1958 period.


    I'd also like to know on what basis Ferrari "certified" 01C/010I, especially in view of the claim there were no numbers on this chassis circa 1960s...


    Regarding the bulkhead/firewall on the Motto body, I would think it is a Ferrari rather than Motto piece, based on the fact we have all seen the photo of the complete rolling chassis with engine that has a bulkhead but no body.
     
  23. piloti

    piloti Formula 3
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    #148 piloti, Jul 16, 2008
    Jim
    I'm no expert, and you know far more about these cars than I do, but the well known photo showing Enzo driving the original 125 chassis definitely has the bulkhead attached although no body.
    Nathan
    PS Why don't you produce a book (maybe a small print run like 'Metal Memory') about 002C, with the full story, period and restoration photos? It would be very interesting.
     
  24. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
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    #149 thecarreaper, Jul 16, 2008
    exactly, and why would someone fake a chassis number , and in particular these numbers way back then, when the cars were not that followed or valuable.

    also, how would they know what the number 1 car would be anyway?


    someone who was there back then, and has now passed, would have to had relayed the information, as communication then was not as it is today.


    i am by no means any sort of historian, but i find the history of the cars from this utterly fascinating.

    the old stuff is way better than ( most ) of the new stuff made now days. P4/5 is an exception of course!
     
  25. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #150 Napolis, Jul 16, 2008
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2008
    The car in the Court Yard. Could someone please post that photo? A VERY interesting observation you've made Nathan.

    002 (002C) is heading back to the Homeland where she's going to undergo a final sorting before the 09 MM which I may run if I think I can do it safety. (Driving on short sleep is no longer my thing) Sport Auto and Ferrari are helping me and we're restoring her engine's hand cranking ability.

    At some point I'm going to write a book about all of my cars mostly photo's as it may be interesting for some when contemplating these mysteries.

    Going through Dino Competizione was really wonderful as that one for sure has no stories and what we learned was amazing.

    Octane will soon have an article on her that I hope captures some of that magic.

    Best!
     
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