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Check out this 348 Challenge . . .

Discussion in '348/355' started by Ferrari, Jan 19, 2004.

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  2. FormulaRacer

    FormulaRacer Formula Junior

    Nov 18, 2003
    261
    I did not know 348 challenges were available with a removable top...I think it might just be a converted 348 t-top with Scca specmodifications (cage, stack dash, gutted, etc).
     
  3. Ferrari

    Ferrari Karting

    Nov 2, 2003
    205
    I think so as well, re-worked GTS . . . but they insist it's not . . .
    Do Challenge Cars have a regular VIN #?

    [Man, I can't believe how many spelling & grammatical errors are in adds . . . ]

    "This is the real deal. A true Ferrari Challege car. This car is not for street use. This has never been for street use. This car was built for Ferrari for their Ferrari challenge series. This car is race ready. This car has virtually never been used. This car was featured on Dupont registry 1994 edition and was the editors choice. This car is equipped for any SCCA race. If you are in the market for a challenge car. I do not feel that you will find a nicer 348 Challenge car period. It is not possible to document the miles on a race car. However, we feel that the car does not have many more miles than represented in this add. The car will be sold as a race car and all race cars will be sold true miles unknown. This car is ready for the track. If you are looking for a great car to race this is it. No money needs to be spent. This race car is race ready. We do have all reciepts for services that have been done to this car since day one. We also just had the car checked over from top to bottom by Ferrari of Atlanta. Ferrari of Atlanta did authenticate that this is a real challenge car direct from the factory in Italy. This is not a kit that was put on a 348 Ferrari to make it a challenge car. Only a handfull of actual challenge cars were made. This is one of the real ones! Good luck! "
     
  4. vanimal

    vanimal Formula Junior

    Mar 19, 2003
    380
    UK
    Full Name:
    Vaughan
    I have a 348 challenge that was raced in the European sreries, the car is based on a TS and is not an official factory car, it was 'challenged' by the dealer as the TB is the base for the challenge. Also the roll cage is not the factory spec OMP item. I have the challenge specification booklet and they are very explicit in what can and cant be done to the car. The car in question is something else.
     
  5. Old Guy

    Old Guy Formula Junior
    Honorary

    Dec 1, 2003
    438
    No longer here
    This (98176) is a real 348 tb Challenge, raced in the US Challenge in 1995 by Rich Peplin. It's still in his paint scheme and number, but that roll bar is an obvious change, (and probably not a bad idea). There were both 348 tb and ts "factory" versions, as well as dealer conversions. (I knew both Rich and the car.)
     
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  7. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    19,134
    socal
    The 348 was never a real race car period. ALL 348 challenge cars were shipped as street cars and then FNA converted with a $5k kit. The 355C was different as some cars were converted and some shipped by the factory as 355C. All 360's are either street or factory made challenge cars. There were ts and tb 348C's. SCCA legal cages are now different than in 1994. SCCA cages need to be welded. The 348 cage is a bolt in with a crisscross under the roof. The cage pictured is not the challenge cage. However, if anyone plans to track the car you need the cage this way because like all 348/355/360's if your not a midget your head hits the rollcage. I'm only 5'6" and I hit my cage even if you take out the center console and move the seat to the most central position. Been there done that.
     
  8. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    May 28, 2003
    9,501
    Colorado
    Full Name:
    Bastuna
    This is a real Challenge 348. Ferrari shipped 32 street "Challenge" cars to be made into challenge cars. I might be wrong on this but IIRC 14 were TB's and 18 were TS's. Back in June I was thinking about buying one of the TB's that was never raced so I did some research on the matter. The Challenge kit that was in addition to the car included the bolt in cage, race seats, and the cars themselves came with a little different exhaust resulting in 20 more hp (allegedly) and different gearing for better acceleration.
     
  9. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    May 28, 2003
    9,501
    Colorado
    Full Name:
    Bastuna

    Oh, there should be a plate on the car (in the door jamb?) that says what number of the 32 that this car is.
     
  10. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    May 28, 2003
    9,501
    Colorado
    Full Name:
    Bastuna
    Actually, I just looked at the Ebay. The dash and such seem to indicate that this was something else other than the 32 cars shipped as street cars and made ready for the challenge series. I suppose that this could have been a street car but that dash would have been a lot to put in after the fact.
     
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  12. FLATOUTRACING

    FLATOUTRACING F1 Rookie

    Aug 20, 2001
    2,684
    East Coast
    Full Name:
    Jon K.
    It's an official dealer converted 348 Challenge car. I know of the car and it's had numerous owners over the past few years and has been on Ebay at least 3 times.

    My understanding is that the car raced two seasons in SCCA and was raced pretty hard.

    I think it changed hands for 40K back in 2001.

    Regards,

    Jon P. Kofod
    www.flatoutracing.net
     
  13. Cavallino Motors

    Cavallino Motors F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    May 31, 2001
    14,143
    Florida or Argentina
    Full Name:
    Martin W.
    might I add, a great deal at that number!

    In my records I show the vin but have the VIN misplaced with a car that I owned before. Could be a real CH and yes there were TS models.
     
  14. goyal99

    goyal99 Karting

    Mar 5, 2002
    185
    Upstate NY - USA
    Full Name:
    V K
    One day down the road these "Challenge converted" 348s will be collectables....With only 32 "Challenge factory" cars ever made, I think they are more desireble (to my thinking at least) to own than an everyday 348 steet car....The same goes for the 348 Serie Speciale cars...So what if some of these cars were run hard on the track. Most all of them had an engine rebuild at least once by now and all of them have LOW mileage, more HP, better suspension, brakes, less weight, updated ECUs etc....Some 348C cars in the hands of a capable driver were as quick as some 355C cars in the Challenge Series!

    Not to mention that the "Challenge kit" is no longer available from the factory or any dealer. These rare cars were build/converted in line with the true Ferrari spirit - to win races :)

    I agree that this particular 348 Challenge car has been sold on eBay before at a very low price....I'm not sure why...but it might be worth for someone interested in this car to find out more details. Great opening price with NO RESERVE....

    All the best - VK
     
  15. FLATOUTRACING

    FLATOUTRACING F1 Rookie

    Aug 20, 2001
    2,684
    East Coast
    Full Name:
    Jon K.

    Maybe the backmarkers but the 355 C was a whopping 10 seconds per lap quicker at Watkins Glen (348 pole time set by Phil Hill's son at 2:14, 355 C pole time Phil Shearer at 2:04.43).

    I don't think any Challenge car will ever be a collectible. They were all raced by amateurs and the costs to maintain them are not cheap.

    I think the Speciales and some of the cars that were never raced may be collectables to some degree but not the cars that were raced.

    Some 348 C's (raced ones) are going in the high 30's. First off there is no place to race them except in SCCA ITE where the car would get killed.

    Second, there really isn't much differrence between the street car and the race car except for a few saftey items and some minor suspension mods.

    The Challenge kit for a 348 ran 5K, the Challenge kit for a 355 was nearly 40K and included much more.

    Challenge cars that are no longer raced end up as FCA club cars and the market for them is very thin. You don't buy these cars to race in SCCA or other series because you can buy other makes much cheaper and win with them.

    The 355 C is a great car but compared to a Porsche Cup Car which is faster, has more parts available (read cheaper), and is more reliable, the 355 C looks too expensive.

    You blow up a Cup Car engine and a new one can be FedExed in two days to your front door for 20K from the west coast. Do that to an 355 engine and you can't even get a spare. You'll wait 2 months to have it rebuilt and spend a lot more than than 20K.

    As a track car, I loved my 355 C, but I would never race it.

    I think the 348 makes a great FCA club car and if you know how to drive it, you'll keep up with the majority of 355 C's which aren't driven very hard.

    Just my 02 worth.

    Regards,

    Jon
     
  16. FormulaRacer

    FormulaRacer Formula Junior

    Nov 18, 2003
    261
    We had a 348Challenge a while back, and it was one of the 32. It was in street form, however it was raced a couple times (#36 if i recall). It was a SOLID car and had a great feel on the track, however it lacked in power and real "track bite."

    For under $40K, its agreat car, but like any ferrari, its maintance is $$$ For the money you can for sure get a better car thats cheaper to maintain, but it won't be a ferrari :)

    We moved to the 355ch, and its magnitudes better, much faster (especially since its been modifed since its not being raced in the series anymore), with lighter euro parts, a couple engine tweaks, its "very fun." Its a much different driving style car, reacts well to throttle steering, and has decent aerodynamics (could beimproved a lot though). And I am around 5'6 as well, and I "just" fit in the car.
     
  17. goyal99

    goyal99 Karting

    Mar 5, 2002
    185
    Upstate NY - USA
    Full Name:
    V K
    Jon,

    I agree with you on most of your points made.

    I didn't mean to imply that any 348C car can outrace a 355C car...Of course not, just looking at the HP numbers alone....I'm sure an experienced racer like yourself driving a highly tuned 355C car is no match for a 348C.

    Sure the P-Cup cars are faster and cheaper to run than any older 348C/355C car....And I have seen them advertised all over the Net and mags for much less than sticker prices also....But at the end of the day, I'd rather own a F-Challenge car than an older, dime-a-dozen 911 PCA Club racer...(excluding the mighty, super-expensive, later P-Cup cars).

    I disagree with you on the collactability of the Challenge cars in general for the long run...Sure I have seen them trade hands much lower than regular 348 cars for now.....I think Ferraris with limited production runs (like the Speciale and Challenge car) on day will be valued by the collectors. Maybe not now, but one day down the road....

    That's my .02 worth

    Cheers

    VK
     
  18. goyal99

    goyal99 Karting

    Mar 5, 2002
    185
    Upstate NY - USA
    Full Name:
    V K
    355ChallengerM3Racer

    Any current photos of your 355C car?? What kind of engine mods did you have??? Just curious, I guess...

    Are you an M3 racer now?? :)

    Regards

    VK
     
  19. F1racer

    F1racer F1 Rookie

    Oct 5, 2003
    4,749
    Laval
    Full Name:
    Jean
    VK,

    I love your 348C!!
    Yellow with yellow rims!

    How many miles did you put on that car?
     
  20. goyal99

    goyal99 Karting

    Mar 5, 2002
    185
    Upstate NY - USA
    Full Name:
    V K
    Hey John

    Actually it's a Serie Speciale #91 converted to Challenge....Low milages, I think around 19K and I drive it on the street (summer only)...

    VK
     
  21. F1racer

    F1racer F1 Rookie

    Oct 5, 2003
    4,749
    Laval
    Full Name:
    Jean
    Serie Speciale # 91! and you can drive on the streets(summer)
    Awesome!

    Compared to a real 348 Challenge was difference it has? brakes, HP, ?

    Oh yeah..Did I tell you I'm a big fan of your car. :)
     
  22. goyal99

    goyal99 Karting

    Mar 5, 2002
    185
    Upstate NY - USA
    Full Name:
    V K

    John

    First of all, thanks for your compliments! It's a cool car and I happen to like it as well ;) According to Jon (the racer) is not fast enough but it's plenty quick for me...

    For Challenge specs add Challenge kit (installed by Ferrari of Houston) to the Speciale and you're good to go...OMP seats, Roll cage, fire safety bottle, remote battery cut-off, delete interior carpet and door panels, delete lights and AC....Base HP on Serie Speciale cars was 320 + add a few more ponies for straight pipes (no cats, no mufflers), remaping of ECUs, larger brakes, lowered suspension, and lighter 18" wheels....Look at the Challenge car for sale on eBay (the first post on this thread) and you'll see more interior mods on that car....Since I drive mine on the street (I re-install the cats, mufflers and lights for inspection), I keep it toned-down so it's not a fully blown Challenge car. I like it that way...

    Originally this was an ex-Paul Frame car of Ferrari of Houston.

    Enjoy and thanks again - VK
     
  23. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    May 28, 2003
    9,501
    Colorado
    Full Name:
    Bastuna
    Is that a tb? I thought that all the ss cars were in ts configurations. That's killer if it's a tb.
     
  24. goyal99

    goyal99 Karting

    Mar 5, 2002
    185
    Upstate NY - USA
    Full Name:
    V K
    That's a TB alright....Serie Speciale cars were made in both TS and TB body style (but not Spiders which made their debut in '94)...

    From a strickly racing prospective, a TB is a more "desireble" configuration than a TS, with stiffer chassis and frame. Less body flex when cornering....

    Regards

    VK
     
  25. kenster888

    kenster888 Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    436
    Massachusetts
    #23 kenster888, Jan 19, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  26. 348 Turbo

    348 Turbo Formula 3

    Jul 17, 2002
    1,837
    now THAT is a good looking 348!
     
  27. FLATOUTRACING

    FLATOUTRACING F1 Rookie

    Aug 20, 2001
    2,684
    East Coast
    Full Name:
    Jon K.
    Vasilis,

    Did not in any way mean to imply your car or any other 348 Challenge is slow. Just comparing the relative performance of each generation of Challenge cars. Keep in mind that the 360 Challenge is nearly 5 seconds per lap faster than my car at the Glen. Each generation of new Challenge cars is a huge step up.

    I actually looked at serial #1 of the Speciale's which was a red 348 at Ferrari of Washington and had only 4000 miles on it but decided on a 355 when I was outbid by another customer.

    The 348 C's are great dual purpose street/track cars and I think the ones that were never raced will some day be collectibles.

    By the way you car looks great with matching wheels. I have always liked the looks of the 348 better than the 355 (most likely stems from being a former TR owner).

    My ideal car would be a 348 body with a 355 engine.

    Regards,

    Jon
     

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