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Discussion in 'United Kingdom' started by 400SPYDER, Jul 19, 2005.
At Andy's request - and many others - here is the poll Rob should have done.
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It would have been fair (and nice) to give him a PM and a chance to remove it first. He probably just assumed it was ok, considering he had had it there so long and nobody had complained.
Also not everybody knows that 1 day ban is 'no big deal'. Some people might take it quite badly and just leave the site. Its not a nice feeling to be banned Im sure.
In a moment of haste I managed to vote yes when I actually wanted to vote no. A decision that cannot be reversed. If a mod finds an avatar that break's the rules why not just remove it and issue a warning.
How dense can you guys be? I already told you that Chris was the first one to get action taken against him and the ban was a mistake. Lesson learned and all the other users I've notified now have been handled differently. Still doesn't take away the immature and inappropriate way Chris responded, which if the change in our enforcement of avatar rules didn't deserve a ban, then his behavior afterwards certainly did.
What is your problem still?
I would like to hear right now from each and every user that can't abide by the following
Any "girl" pics in the avatar, especially nude pics. Post a picture of you and/or your car. Simple enough.
"Bikini" pics anywhere but the bikini thread.
Pics in the "Bikini" thread against the Bikini Thread specific rules, which are no frontal nudity.
Commercial posts if you are not a sponsor.
Foul language and obviously circumventing our censor system with replacement characters like !.
You are either with me and the guidelines of FerrariChat.com or you aren't and with Chris.
Please respond to this thread you are with Chris and I will remove your account right now. I only want FerrariChat.com users with a positive attitude that support the entire community.
I work my ass off to keep 19,000 users happy from all over the World and do what's best for the overall community. I'm very disappointed with the attitude and barbarian behavior of a few in the UK section. Go to any of the American forums, do you see the same consistent problems?
Delete me right away. Nothing you have posted make sense and you have the 'if you go against me i'll ban you forever' shows what a totally un-reasonable person you are and that you run this site as a dictator.
You should remember that people pay subscriptions on here and therefore have rights, should be very careful.
It isnt Chris's actions that have caused any problems, we can all read Rob and its your e-mails the are threatning and give the big i am, not Chris's, as far as i can see he put up a decent argument and you cant handle that so have to behave like a child and throw your dummys out !
Chris took a day out when the London bombings happened to find out if my son was ok as i was in New Zealand, he actually went down to the hospital and found my wife and son and put them in touch with me. He went to Le Mans with a group of guys from here and as far as i can see, had a great time. He was involved in the F-Chat calander with everyone else. If this is the sort of person you are going to treat like a idiot and dont want on your site, then you dont want me here either and i dare say 99% agree with me on here. Why didnt you post the full conversation with Chris in the first place ? Why did you set up a poll against him ? Why are you saying the pic was nude when it wasnt ?
Be man enough to admit you got it wrong, apologise and lets get back to what this site should be about. Never seen something so infantile in my entire life. He said he broke the rules, admitted it, but his point's valid and as everyone on F-Chat can see he was 100% correct about your manner and the way you dealt with it !
You have removed a picture of girls in Bikini's from your profile pic - surely that isnt the bikini thread and you deserve a one day ban yourself ? You called him immature and inapropriate behavour, maybe you should take a look on another thread where your WHOLE conversation is posted, we can all see who was immature and totally inapropriate !
im guessing you will delete this as it contains too much truth and common sense ?
100% of people on this thead voted in favour of Chris, you going to ban them all ?
Bye everyone, this is joke !
I don't think it is appropriate to insult people here.
So you made a mistake and he questioned it - for that he was banned?!
I completely appreciate the work and passion you have put into creating and maintaining this site. That is why I am a subscriber even though, unlike many here, I cannot really afford it. However I am with Chris on this particular issue. The way I see it is that you banned him wrongly and then took exception when he questioned it. I do not want you to delete my account as I enjoy Ferrarichat, but I will not sit here saying nothing through fear of being banned.
In my opinion the correct course of action would be for you to apologise to Chris and reinstate him.
If this is my last post here (I hope not) then thanks for everything guys. I enjoyed it.
You know that isn't true. You are the one not making sense. Is it unreasonable of me to have forum rules? Is it unreasonable to enforce them? If I was un-reasonable and a dictator then why is FerrariChat.com so successful? Why is most everyone except a few piss hards in the UK forum happy? I'm sorry if you guys are on edge and have been under stress the past few weeks. It doesn't change anything that this is a community for Ferrari enthusiasts and we have to do what is best for the overall community.
I think my emails to Chris were very to the point and attempting to settle him down so he didn't make things worse for himself, which he did. Do you not want me to be tough? If I'm not tough protecting FerrariChat.com, then who will be? Who keeps the scammers, spammers, and mental patients out? Do you think that is easy? Do you believe in a lawless community?
I never said Chris wasn't a good person. He simply broke a rule, took the consequences immaturely, and now just dug himself deeper, whereas Phil recognized he broke the rules and accepted the consequences maturely.
Then I expect to hear from the 750 UK users on this thread and I will remove their account too. I only want users that want to be here. If it was so bad, why have they been here this long without complaint?
The full conversation actually makes it look better from my side that I was giving him a chance. Look at the way he is talking to me vs. how I respond to him. Lifetime ban was a last resort if he couldn't abide by our community rules.
Wasn't against him any more than the new poll was against me. Most agreed that one user can't be above the FerrariChat.com rules. Isn't that still true? The new poll was whether Chris should have been banned. I even voted No. I've already said several times I should have warned him like the users following Chris.
I'm sorry if I didn't see carefully enough, but what I saw was a nude girl from the back.
I apologize for banning him and not just sending him an email first, but look at his first emails. He wasn't admitting he broke the rules, he was arguing that he should be allowed to post nude girls in his avatar!
I haven't decided if we will enforce same rules for profile pics. I've decided to remove mine for the time being. Also, since Chris we haven't been banning users, just giving them a warning they need to be gone this week.
No, I think I addressed everything and if anything, you obviously don't belong in this community as sticking up for someone that broke the rules is more important than the community of fellow Ferrari enthusiasts and the value FerrariChat.com adds.
What will your new FerrariChat.com username be? Isn't that hypocritical to make a dramatic exit when you will just return eventually under another name?
Please, anyone, tell me where I'm wrong or what other lessons learned I need? Only one I'm aware of now was already learned several days ago and that was not banning the users without warning.
Sorry Rob, you are being bang out of order here, and not wanting to take a step back from it all and pause for thought. Basically we are all your customers, and pay a service, and we deserve to be dealt with as adults with decency and respect, rather than you handing out bans left right and centre jsut because your emotions are running high.
I think the poll results speak for themselves, if you want to go ahead and destroy the UK section (arguably the most used on F-Chat??) then go ahead and ban everyone who voted no, hell might as well go ahead and delete the whole UK section whilst you are on this power trip. I am sure your sponsors would be happy with losing a potentally large part of their target audience.
To be honest I didn't really have a strong opinion one way or the other with what you did to Chris, however I do have serious issue with the way you are carrying on now. Why result to insults and letting your emotions obviosuly run high? Have you not had to deal with tricky situations with customers before, because it sure doesn't look like it from this.
I am shocked at your response, considering your responsibility on this board.
Well, calling us "dense" isn't particularly going to win friends and influence people, but that's a minor point
Rob, on the whole we are a pretty laid back nation and yes, we do let a lot less offend us than maybe the average US citizen might do, why? I have no idea.
We have had some complete pillocks on both sides of the pond in the past that the various Mods have dealt with efficiently and with the support of most of the F.Chat community.
We also have some really good guys who stand up for and spread the word about F.Chat where and when they can.... including, er, FOC club meets!
Chris Stimson is one of those guys.
I have only one request... could you two please have a chat by email and let bygones be bygones ... Chris feels he has been unfairly treated, but he is normally a pretty reasonable guy... likewise you Rob... life's too short and the F.Chat community too valuable to lose good members over misunderstanding.
It is simple, those rules have existed for well over a year now. Yes, they weren't being enforced consistently. Is posting a nude avatar against our Forum Rules treating me or FerrariChat.com with decency and respect?
The poll was simply should Chris have been banned. I voted No. Does the poll say that UK users
Don't believe there should be community rules?
That community rules shouldn't be enforced?
Shocked that I am doing the tough job of enforcing standards in the community for the benefit of you?
I apologize to Chris for banning his account and would have lifted the ban if he accepted it like Phil had, because I determined that banning from the start was not the proper process to clear the entire community. The Announcement and warning that users would have a couple days to clear everything up was the proper method.
Only your last post if you want it to be. If you can not follow our forum rules, then please email or PM me that you wish your account to be removed.
taken from a closed thread
Rob Lay's Avatar
Rob Lay Rob Lay is online now
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Southlake, TX
Full Name: Rob Lay
Simple. Break forum rules and especially if you F with me on top of it. Then we will take action.
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havent you broke the rules here rob??????????????????????????????????
POT KETTLE BLACK
Have you broken any rules? I'm glad you have read them and understand them now. I think it is obvious that the rules are not black and white. Saying "F" is not the same of spelling it out completely or changing one letter. Also a big difference between a bikini top and a nude!
steve f and hud90n?
What's your specific problem with FerrariChat.com or me now?
Are you unable to be a valuable rule abiding member of our community? Tell me now. Anyone else too.
You are the ones causing the stress. It started with your stress maybe. Thankless for me to do the dirty work. Some of you should be ashamed and embarrassed for your lack of respect towards the FerrariChat.com rules, other users, and me.
With 19,000 users there will always be a couple jerks, but I will do what I can to keep them out of our community. BTW, Chris is not a jerk, just upset I banned him and didn't understand/respect our rules. No big deal, he can return.
I'm serious. Either specifically tell me what mistake I made and what lesson I should learn or don't get involved. Simple attacks and flaming are not going to be accepted. You have been warned.
Specifically you thought Chris's avatar was a nude - the whole UK section is now telling you it wasn't - you seem to have grudgingly accepted that - 1st mistake.
By your own admission and vote you agreed that the initial ban was a mistake - No.2.
Without these initial mistakes could Chris have over reacted - obviously not.
Without these initial mistakes would this whole pi$$ing contest be going on - obviously not.
In a roundabout way you have admitted your mistakes and apologised for them, something that I for one have appreciated - IMHO what you need to do now to end this whole sorry affair is to reinstate Chris immediately - and for that matter Reggie, because without you starting this ball rolling ................
I still don't think that image was appropriate. Can someone please email it to me so I can take another look? I still think it was a girl's nude ass.
In a "roundabout way" I can agree with what you say except that the image wasn't a nude (or close). However, doesn't make it right for the way Chris reacted. If he was really mature about it, why couldn't he say "I don't like the way you are telling me, but I understand this is against our rules. I promise not to do it again. Can you please reinstate me?"
It was reggie's choice to leave, he couldn't agree to follow our community rules. Can't bring someone back once they are gone.
A little gobsmacked in the same way Eric (and everyone else) is.
Post no.4 is so wide of the mark in so many ways I can't believe this is the same site I was on the other day.
I guess we should all let this drop and give things a week or two to calm down again.
I still think Post No. 4 applies, just written when the intensity level was higher. If I make a mistake with something I say, I will admit it.
Rob, Rob, Rob,
You are soooooo wrong in all what you have said and are saying.
You have decided to take on the WHOLE UK section over something that could have been resolved with a simple pm.
I don't think anyone here is arguing over the rules of the forum, they are there and need to be adhered to as best as possible, but i'm sure everyone here could pull near enough each and every rule apart if they had time, based on posts throughout Fchat both in the UK and US sections.
What is apparant is your bad attitude and your manor in dealing with these issues. You risk totally alienating yourself within the UK forum if not already done so. There is not one single Fchatter in the UK forum who agrees with the way you have/are dealing with the points raised. Doesnt that tell you something?
This has gone way beyond Chris and Reggie now.
Well done for ruining a perfectly good, well mannered, well moderated unoffensive forum....god, where is Tea Arse when you need him!
Can we use "boy" pics for our avatars?
Of course not, but not a major problem with the limited number of female and gay users around. Hmm, what are some of the reasons we can't get more females on FerrariChat.com?
You asked me to reply in the response to my thread re-open (which I didn't realise was a no-no, so appologies to all mods, and you for that).
As has been noted several times when one member rubs another up the wrong way, it is difficult to tell when there is a gentle micky take going on or a full scale personal attack. Chaa has referred to a member calling him a c**t and spouting anti-Jew comments, which can not be tolerated.
I feel you personally insulted me with your "you must be drunk" jibe, and the threat which ammounted to "shut it or you're banned". You are the only person on this site whom I have had even slighty negative contact with. I recall there is something in the American Constitution which refers to "Freedom Of Speach", and I think it's quite high up the list. If it's good enough for the US of A, should be acceptable here. Your initial poll was totally loaded against Chris and therfore un-constitutional.
The whole manner and tone of your replies have been either agressive, arrogant or quite frankly showing personel skills which can only be classed as somewhat lacking. If I spoke to a customer the way you have, I'd expect a quick withdrawl of all business and a severe reply at least. How can you have mis-judged this situation so badly? You are obviously an intellgent and resourceful fellow to have set up and maintained this site, and as you have said a great deal, kept the majority of 19,000 customers happy.
I hope you take this in the good spirit that it is intended, as you have over your last few posts requested feedback as to where you may have gone wrong or need a little guidance.
My first paragraph appologised if I'd offended you by re-opening a closed thread, which I feel is the honourable thing to do. If you feel you wish to make a similar gesture to to your fellow UK F-chatters, I'm sure this would be appreciated.
Most of what I've been saying refers to our rules and enforcing them. So how can I be "soooooo wrong in all what you have said and are saying" unless you don't agree with having community rules and enforcing them?
Old cliché if I'm wrong, then I don't want to be right. If it is wrong to protect the standards of our community, then I really don't want any of you around anyway. The rest of the World appreciates the community I've created and how I protect it.
You realize how many PM's I've received offline that support me? These guys are afraid to death of you blow hards. Why should I allow a hostile environment like that? If I have to get rid of several dozen users to eliminate the problems, I will.
Again, I ask you what is wrong with having community rules and enforcing them? All anyone can say is you are so wrong and no one agrees with you. Well specifically tell me what users don't agree with and I can address it? I am not going to let you push me around and I will stick up for what is right. If that is a "bad attitude", then you are free to call it that.