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Classiche Certificate of Authenticity & Restoration

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Specter, Aug 31, 2021.

  1. Specter

    Specter Rookie

    Aug 31, 2021
    15
    No problem to move the car. Now she is in EU


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  3. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

    Nov 19, 2008
    8,141
    Cardiff, UK
    Full Name:
    Steven Robertson
    Very interesting car with special external and internal features originally owned by Gianni Agnelli's younger brother, Umberto.

    Sold by RM Sotheby's at the Leggenda e Passione auction in September, 2017. Said to be matching engine and gearbox numbers in RM Sotheby's description here.

    Classiche Certification was also applied for then.
     
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  4. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Four Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 22, 2004
    49,782
    Isle of Luci
    Full Name:
    Jack
    Second owner Phil Baumgarten was a dear friend although he sold this car before we became acquainted in the late 1970s. He may have had it at his Michigan home. He retired to Florida and became a partner (with Bob Cressman) in the Ferrari dealership which is now Ferrari Maserati Ft. Lauderdale. Phil had some very nice Ferraris and Maseratis in a fairly eclectic collection which included several antique fire engines.
     
  5. Specter

    Specter Rookie

    Aug 31, 2021
    15
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  7. Specter

    Specter Rookie

    Aug 31, 2021
    15
  8. TTR

    TTR F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 29, 2007
    3,259
    Riverside, CA
    Full Name:
    Timo
    YES, very much so, but are you sure it really needs a full restoration at the moment or even in the near future ?
    Or is she mechanically well enough to drive "as is", at least for a couple of years (or more) ?
    Just curious.
     
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  9. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 28, 2003
    49,642
    Texas!
    Well said. +1 restorations are the enemy of driving. After spending so much money, driving only makes things worse.
     
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  10. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 28, 2003
    49,642
    Texas!
    In the business world, we say, "Perfection is the enemy of progress." I can see how this might apply in the vintage car world.
     
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  12. TTR

    TTR F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 29, 2007
    3,259
    Riverside, CA
    Full Name:
    Timo
    This ^^ reminds me of a phrase I was taught/told by a friend “in the vintage car world”, referring to efforts or extents I go to while working on them, “(trying to make things) better is the enemy of good enough”.

    Or a story I heard long ago about a composer (E.W. Korngold, IIRC ?), back in the day, working in Hollywood, on some film score when some studio production exec. comes by and asks him how is it coming along, to which said composer replies something like “Well, I’m having difficulties making this one part perfect” and the exec. says something like “Listen, we don't want it perfect, we want it by Tuesday".
     
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  13. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 28, 2003
    49,642
    Texas!
    Perfect! ;)
     
  14. italiancars

    italiancars F1 Rookie

    Apr 18, 2004
    2,888
    Hershey, PA
    The question is to Drive or to Display?
     
  15. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    16,901
    THIS!

    Marcel Massini
     
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  16. FRENCHRACER

    FRENCHRACER Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2017
    2
    Los Altos Hills
    Full Name:
    HENRI RICHARD
    This message is for Marcel Massini. I would want to commission a report on my car but do not understand if it is even still possible to do so and what is the process if it is. Thank you in advance for your help with this inquiry.
     
  17. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    16,901
    I received your PM, thanks.
    And will reply shortly.

    Marcel Massini
     
  18. Specter

    Specter Rookie

    Aug 31, 2021
    15
    Very simple. I started buying Ferrari recently and this one is my first Ferrari. That’s that.


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  19. FRENCHRACER

    FRENCHRACER Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2017
    2
    Los Altos Hills
    Full Name:
    HENRI RICHARD
    Thank you so much Mr Massini. I am honored that you would answer ! For quick reference my chassis is #13181
     
  20. Birel

    Birel Formula 3

    Sep 12, 2005
    1,679
    Brisbane
    Full Name:
    Andrew Turner
    Some time in the 1990's I sold this car to an American living in HK who also bought what is now John Vardanian's 250PF coupe. The cabrio ended up in UK at our MHT Ferrari Dealership in Gloucestershire. Lots of unpaid bills and an unpleasant parting of the ways. Nice to see that it survives today looking pretty much as it did then. I have some print photos filed away which I will scan and post.
     
  21. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    16,901
    You mean April 1997 when you had it for sale.
    It went to Mr. C. in HK.

    Marcel Massini
     
  22. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    16,901
    Hello Mr Specter........

    Marcel Massini
     
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  23. Specter

    Specter Rookie

    Aug 31, 2021
    15
    Thank you very much. Much appreciated



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  24. Dustin Wetmore

    Dustin Wetmore Karting

    Mar 31, 2011
    52
    Neenah, Wisconsin
    Full Name:
    Dustin Wetmore
    The tendency has been for the committee to approve original color combinations. If a non-original color is used, an applicant is still in pretty good shape and should be approved so long as the color(s) was available in period.

    That said - I have experienced some cases where the color used was technically available in period but seldom if ever used on the example in question. That met with extreme push-back and certification took nearly two years.

    The chemical make up of the coating products used has had no role to play. It's on us as restorers to educate our clients towards making decisions which yield and authentic product (single stage versus base/ clear).
     
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  25. Specter

    Specter Rookie

    Aug 31, 2021
    15
    Hello to all. I wanted to share my recent experience with you: I contacted the Ferrari classiche department and had a fantastic conversation with the sales manager who explained to me that they are improving the certification process a lot compared to what was done in the past, improving communication and reducing costs and times. Even with regard to the restoration of the cars, today things work in a very different way from what happened in the past, reducing times and above all costs, that are aligned with the best body shops and offering a better, transparent and engaging service for the owner of the car. I am sure that if I have any needs regarding my classic cars, this and the next ones that I will buy, I will call Ferrari Classiche first and their sales manager.


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  26. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

    Jul 1, 2004
    2,847
    San Francisco Area
    Full Name:
    John Vardanian
    Prancing Horse #112, Third Quarter, 1994 says, in addition to owning 1381GT and 1779GT, W.C. also owned 1777GT which was turned into a Nembo Spyder.

    john
     
  27. enio45

    enio45 Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    May 16, 2004
    1,130
    Gilbert, AZ
    Full Name:
    Ed
    I have had 2 Classiche Certs done in the past 2 years (58 Ellena and 67 GTC) and both have resulted in positive results, good timeframes etc.

    I don't have comparison on prices, but they do publish a price list for various models as to the Cert Process cost.

    Most importantly for me was the use of John Amette, who came out from Newport Beach Ferrari and did all the legwork and pics
    required to submit the package to Italy. Johns longtime experience in certifications in my opinion is key to the process. He knows what to look for,
    what is required and what pics/quality of pic is critical.
     
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