Classiche Certified Replacement Block

I would be very interested in the responses to this question, thoughts anyone?

 

Personally, I wouldn't expect much of a discount. If the block is certified, that ought to be satisfactory for a knowledgeable buyer. Everyone talks about original, matching numbers cars, and that's fine, but the internals sometimes get changed out. Further, many of these cars have had engine issues requiring repair or replacement along the way, anyway. Do you possess the original block? Was it tired out? Damaged? Replaced somewhere along the way? Regardless, these cars were just old cars at some point, and they were worked on.

I'm not going to go into our own Classiche application of an older race car, which has been abandoned at this point, due to Classiche's absurd demands and hypocritical approvals, but Classiche's "blessing" may not be worth as much as it's perceived by some to be, in my opinion.

For those in the know, just do your homework. Besides, now that the Historic Challenge is defunct in the US, there's little reason to pursue Classiche on these shores. I realize you're in EUR, so that may have some bearing, as there is still some sort of effort alive there.

CW

 

20%

 

I would not buy a car with a replacement--unless it was a SUPER RARE car where you could not get another. But, for a normal car today 330, Daytona, Lusso, etc---why would
you invest a lot of money in something that has an excuse.

Whenever you go to sell it, it will always be a very nice car BUT......

I have seen cars with problems sell for 10-20% less than a good car. My advice, spend the money for a good car & you will get that back & more when you go to sell. Do not be in a rush to buy something---you may regret it later.

Tell us what type of car you are considering.

Ken Goldman

 

Huge. If the block was replaced in the day it's one thing. I'd have no interest in buying a car with a classiche stamped new block, None.

 

I cannot provide guidance on the valuation discount but will add to the general consideration of Classiche or engine swap. I find Classiche preferable to preventing a engine from returning to its original chassis. I also find Classiche highly preferable to restamping a series correct block so it becomes "matching numbers".

Jeff

 

ferrari has no problem with classiche blocks
and i suspect the future customers will follow.
imho
ed

 

10% of retail $$.....or, "It depends".....

 

or......100%

 

Napolis, is this your objection? Ferrari used to have their own foundry, but apparently not for the repops now.

Pulled from another thread, but very relevant
While I hope I have not, apologies to Brian if I've stepped on toes.

 

Are Ferrari 250 engine blocks prone to cracking? If so, I would see it as a positive as it's a Ferrari approved correct part and even better if stamped with the same number. What numbers go on the Classiche approved block? These cars are 50+ years old, parts wear out and engine blocks over time can crack. I don't know if Ferrari blocks are particularly prone to this but Aston Martin David Brown era 6 cylinder blocks are and many have to be welded and I'd prefer a new manufacturer approved one to a welded one. If it is a negative it's a much lesser one in my book than a replacement body on a car being made by a company other than the original manufacturer. I'd still use it to negotiate the price down as I know that most don't think like I do.

 

Cars with brand new replica engines stamped classiche don't interest me. No more. No less.

 

If the cars you are considering are a TdF and a 250 SWB---I see no reason to spend millions on each car unless they are 100% original.

These cars do come up in fine shape (There was a nice TdF at RM Auctions earlier this month---and there was another at RM in London last year---owned years ago by the man who I bought my 250 PF Coupe from) so why go for something less than 100%. To save 10% or 20% when spending this much money makes
no sense at all.

Ken Goldman

 

I'll send you the hat that they left on the seat of our car at a show two years ago . . . .

 

Matching original numbers for everything is the gold standard. Of the gold standard is the original engine block.It is to be expected that it may have had a rebuild or two.Doccuments of any rebuild are very important and should be issued by a well known and respected shop. If a Classiche built replica engine is required or just desired for what ever reason, it is important NOT to discard in any way the original block and all external and internal parts regardless of their condition. Having the original engine kept with the car and in good running condition should in no way effect the market value of the car.If anything it could add to the market value just for being available to be reinstalled. Even if the original engine is not in good condition it's important to have it available to a prospective buyer.I would say this same philosophy could apply to the entire running gear as well as just about all original parts still with the car. A new owner could descide to turn the car from a road car to a trailer queen and Concourse judged vehicle for which original parts are very important and the car need only to be driven as required by the judging. A very wise descision for any car to be entered in speed or distance events would be to sub the original engine and probably other vunerable parts with reproduction parts. Many of the 250 GTO owners and owners of other competition cars do just this. If someone is spending a million or more on on of these jems it makes sense to put one hundred K plus into protecting it original vital organs. tongascrew

 

Most draw the line:

Chassis, engine, body, gearbox.

Internals are wear items.

 

That is quite true - but I have never understood it. (the Corvette people may be even more fanatical than the Ferrari market)

If it is perfectly OK to completely gut the insides out of an engine or a gearbox and replace them with new old stock or even new manufactured original spec parts - crankshaft, even - why would it be such a holy grail to keep the original main castings?

The block and transmission case are really just the outer shell of a much more complicated internal mechanism. And, in many engines the block itself is a wear item which can only be rebored so many times.

 

It's all about the cast or stamped numbers.

 

Yes, I know...and I even understand this to a certain point.

But I cannot get past the logic that really no one major part of a car should necessarily be that much more important than another. A block is more important than a crankshaft just because it has a number stamped on it?

 

I think it is more often the opposite, where a complete car is lacking the original engine, lost to time or damage.

In that case the new engine is built to replace "nothingness" under the hood of an otherwise complete car.

If you had a damaged but intact block, there are firms that could cast a replacement without going to Ferrari at all.

 

Are the blocks or major parts only available on an exchange basis from Classiche and the originals retained by Ferrari? It would be understandable if so as another engine could be built around the original block.

 

Theoretical question...

Let's say someone has a high-value historic. The motor lets go during a vintage/historic race. The damage is bad enough that the block has to be scrapped.

So, the owner is faced with two options: procure a NOS block without the correct stamping and build that up OR hire Classiche to build a new replacement motor and stamp the correct s/n with a reference to the replacement.

Which is more desirable? Which preserves the value better?

CW