Classiche program problems and veiws.

Thanks

I'll email you a few more items next week.

 

I could be wrong, but I think those cars that get pushed onto their trailers are in the minority. And there is rarely, if ever, an FCA-sanctioned National concours without a track event to complement. If you don't think Ferrari owners "DRIVE" their cars, come out to a track event sometime. But I think this is getting off topic..... Sorry.

 

Just a comment on the classic program, FNA is really pushing it, I called to get any recall info on my 355 and mentioned my BB and they immediately offered the classic program for my car, I mentioned Ferrari Spa had no records of my build sheet and FNA said the classic program would fix that, then they asked for my email to send me info and an application.

 

My dealer called me up, unsolicited, to tell me about it.

He said Ferrari charges an extra $1,000 for build sheets. He also mentioned that there is a discount for 3 or more cars going through the program.

 

Agreed, but the majority driven are newer car, older challange cars etc. The comments here are about the vintage cars!!! to many of them are shown and "Pushed" at least here in the U.S.

 

No crappy American grape vines for me

 

Points deduction for the crack in the grape vine?

 

Aptly put!

Great !

 

I thought some people here might be interested in Mr. Nye's comments. My post was about Audi Tradition and the Auto Union coming up for sale. It is on the Atlas F1 nostalgia forum. I don't know which car Doug is specifically refering to....

So true, Stu.

Recently, with the owner of a car of great historic significance alongside me, facing major car company executives across a desk, we were informed blandly that 'Our records confirm it, your car does not exist'. Knowing where it has been almost every year of its life - with the documentary evidence to support this - I responded 'Huh, have we got news for you, sunshine!'.

It took a while to translate 'sunshine'...

But 30 minutes later, after we had taken them through our car's history, and its surviving distinguishing features, their eyes grew round. They began to shift somewhat uncomfortably in their chairs. And they began to listen.

Getting an archivist job with a major factory, and managing to hold it down for more than six months, does NOT qualify anybody to become the ultimate authority on their long-gone racing products, nor to pontificate upon great cars which have been with great owners since before many of us - and certainly most of these car company people - were born.

Ferrari is not the only company to have dropped huge goolies in this manner. And one day, having paid their 10,000 Euros fee for 'Factory Authentication', some poorly served and misled high-rolling owner is going to lash out...

Those company executives to whom these 'official' money-making scams seem a great idea simply do not realise how thin that ice can be.

In my long experience gullible newbie owners learn VERY quickly. Short-term factory profit can easily turn into long-term dispute, and - at worst - costly disaster in court...

DCN

 

Ferrari's fee, of course, is not 10,000 Euros.

Do the independent experts like Mr. Nye feel that pursuing factory certification is a waste of time and money?

 

I think if you asked the so called experts as to the value of the Ferrari Classiche program, I think you would get a wide array of opinions. Personally, I would rather pay Marcel Massini a fee...

 

i agree i would like to see the classiche program succeed but they could easily fall into the 'ivory tower' attitude that because they are Ferrari they are all knowing. be patient. it will happen that someone like marcel masinni or any of the contributing experts to Cavallino will come across a major errer in the Classiche review of a particular car and then the fun will start. tongascrew george

 

IMHO the whole excitement is based on the fact, that some people see their hopes dashed.
Personally I welcome any factories who show activities regarding their history.
Maybe Ferrari will make occasional mistakes, but who's perfect ?
As long as I can read, that the VIN of my 308 GTB belongs to a 512 BB, or that my car doesn't exist at all, though officially confirmed by Ferrari, I will not pay too much attention to some self-appointed experts.

Best Regards from Germany

Martin

 

Ferrari is threatening classic Ferraris by trying to control everything.
There are so many people who are dedicated to keeping these classic Ferraris running, safe and authentic. There are people who re-make ignition coils, decals, hose, engine blocks and heads, upholstery parts and pieces, all this to keep classic Ferraris alive. These guys have dedicated there lives to these cars. They were stirred by them from early on and continue the passion. even if some of these people have never even owned a Ferrari
Ferrari Classiche uses incorrect details and procedures on these restorations (brand new engines)(incorrect interior materials) and "blessing" them as correct.
In regard to Classic Ferrari's, what is the "factory". As far as I am concerned, Ferrari had the smallest part of building any car. Take a 275 GTB. PF designed it, Scaglietti built it and painted it, Gilco made the chassis, another guy made the interior.
Talk about a kit car!!!
How can Ferrari "bless" a 275 GTB when they did so little to construct it from new? Now if there were a Pininfarina Classiche program this would be acceptable.
Please do not support this program or Ferrari for that matter, and do not let a Heritage certificate sway you in determining the liquidity of a car, let the car speak for itself.

 

Where did you get the information that Gilco made chassis for Ferraris as late as the 275 GTB? I thought Gilco and Ferrari severed their relationship circa 1958...

 

Over-restoration will prevail

 

My recent tour of the Classiche workshops has stimulated my interest in forum members' experiences and opinions. It's been a while since there has been a discussion of Classiche here (at least according to my rather limited search skills), so rather than start a new thread I figured it would make more sense to revive one of the older ones.



Jack.

 

During the just past FCA National there was a seminar Wednesday night on concours procedures. It was during that discussion that Classiche came up. The international Ferrari judging group is in continuing talks with Classiche over certain information lapses especially on bodywork details.

Jeff

 

It's still a bunch of crap. At least the certification process is. And, now that they've created a wishy-washy, catch-all semi-certification (significant cars of interest category, or whatever they're calling it), SpA has undermined its own program. What hogwash.

However, the fact that you can now get out-of-production parts (even though they're at astronomical prices) is of some value to the community and some owners.

CW

 

Hi Jack
Interestingly Napolis, who at one point seemed to be against the Classiche programme, has now decided to put 002C through the programme. See this thread;
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=251779
So hopefully he will pitch in with his thoughts as the process works through.
Nathan

 

It is probably wise to split up the cars into 2 groups:

The certification based on a bunch of photos taken of a particular series-built car is IMO a joke. I cannot see how someone can assess the originality of a car without the car being present.

For the early cars, as well as the competition cars, it becomes a different matter. I'd still say that the cars would have to go to Italy for the purpose, but based on the assumption (I know, dangerous) that the factory has archives that others don't have access to, it could actually mean something.

However, if someone were to modify their hairpin-valvetrain to coils, are Classiche going to take the valve covers off? I don't think so. So what do they actually certify?

Then there are the disputed certifications; If Classiche were to make themselves really credible, full disclosure should be given as to how they arrived at certain conclusions.

 

In November, 2007, everyone here hated Classiche. For example, according to one blowhard member/owner:


"[T]he Classiche program is a big ripoff and anyone who gave Ferrari money in exchange for a worthless piece of paper, is a world class sucker."


I had a car certified, later sold it for a good price. Now apparently some are re-exploring Classiche. I guess world class suckers are like wide ties, they come into, and fall out of fashion.

 

Nathan

Just to be clear the work I'm having done to 002 isn't being done by Classiche.

They have been very helpful and all is good.

Cheers

 

But you will be having 002C certified by Classiche, or have I misunderstood this post?

Nathan

 

When we're finished restoring her we will present her to Classiche for certification.

I'll report on how that goes.

Cheers