My .02c. I considered classiche-ing my car- (not having any early history on it). I Met with the local representative and came away turned off to the process. 1) They projected very little demonstrable knowledge (historical or technical) and 2) It was all about the money - and I felt they were asking a bit much given their apparent disdain to what I thought were reasonable questions- such as- Do I get copies of build sheets, original colors, original selling dealer info etc... If memory serves, I was quoted WELL north of 6k - and for that - received plenty of fine print, but not much substance (beyond the red binder- which did look nice). Perhaps it was just the presenters way - but he attempted to make it seem unreasonable that I would want to focus on the car, over it's value. The "pitch" was less about authenticating anything - OTHER THAN- how NOT having the certification, would diminsh the cars "value" by more than the cost of the process. I opted not to do it and was really kind of turned off. Now on the flip side - I've had the pleasure of interacting with Mr. Massini but few a times and his knowledge, experience and love of the marque was immediatly apparent. You immediatly sensed it was MORE about the car than the buck. If I ever decide to sell, I would certainly consider Marcels certification over the dealers even at twice the cost because it's worth was apparent to me. I'm sure there others who will look at the process and say "spend 6 to make 12" it's a no brainer.
I know owners with Classiched cars and owners with Massini researched cars. I have a lot more faith in the latter. Even without a nifty red book.
What ever vintage/historic Ferrari is being evaluated Marcel Massini not only is the best source on the car but of equal importance he has no ax to grind which might influence how an evaluation is arrived at. Considering the how the bubble has been inflated, minimizing surprises after adoption must be a priority. tongascrew
In november 2013, I have looked up the Classiche section on the official Ferrari website. The instructions are straightforward: fill out the application form, supply some basic facts on your car, and pay the 500 euro application fee. Simple, so that is what I did, but there was no reply. Through the Netherlands owners club and the Ferrari customer service I now contacted various Ferrari employees from other departments, but still no reply. Is the Classiche section still active? Thank you for your help! I own #3227 250GTE which I bought with the Classiche book, and have just started on a restoration of a 365GT for which I want this as well.
Exactly, you can buy a ringbinder (red if absolutely necessary) some plastic envelopes and put together your own history. Spend the 6K on the car when required, as we all know at sometime it will be !
Hi everyone, roll out the cake trolley and serve me up a large slice of hypocritical humble pie! As a very open critic and hater of the "Classiche" process, this may sound very out of character, but i have now submitted my 275GTB for the Red Book! The car had previously been submitted for "Classiche" just prior to my ownership in the USA, but it was rejeted because it had non original wheels and the rear handbrake callipers were missing - thats what the inspector noticed, but I think I could have added another 50 things to that list! Everything has now been resolved, after a 4 year restoration of the body, chassis and mechanicals, including colour and interior change back to the original factory delivery spec. But, as many of you know I have competition suspension and brakes fitted to my car, fortunately I also have a complete set of all the original spec equipment! So given the weather has been awful and the roads are covered in dirt and salt, I had a little bit of time on my hands - so off comes all the competition brakes and suspension and on goes all the original spec equipment. Now the car is totally original and back to factory spec. The inspector has been, he spent his time going over every aspect of the car, writing his report and taking a huge amount of detailed pictures. He is happy with every detail of the car and has submitted all the relevant information the to factory to receive the Classiche Red Book, but this process will probably take a good few months. Why did i do it? Because I am not the richest guy in the world, I worked hard and spent my life savings buying and restoring this car, I got lucky because classic cars, particularly old Ferrari's became the best performing asset class in the world. I am now in the situation where I own a car thats value is so out-with my world and lifestyle, I start to question it. I have two beautiful children, business plans, ambitions and dreams that the equivalent value of this car could fulfil - so there may come a point in the near future that I may consider selling my baby, my dream car, my obsession. The reality... I am constantly around Ferrari people and experts, I guess their opinions and views have moulded my own, hence my dislike of the whole Classiche process, it is to the whole a reflection of their own views. But unlike me their business is Classic Ferrari's, thats how they pay the bills - and as much as they hate it, the bills get paid easier and quicker when they are selling a car that has been through the Classiche process. I am protecting myself and putting myself in a position, that if the time to sell comes along, I can maximise my investment and attract the new buyers who hold the Red Book in huge regard. But I still think my restoration thread out weighs the value of the Red Book by a country mile, and God this pie tastes rotten!!!!! cheers Mark
No better evaluation of the situation has, in my opinion, been penned. It covers all the bases and then leaves the door wide open. Yours really is "just one man's opinion" but an opinion that all involved with restorations, particularly Ferraris, should read and ponder. This post will be printed out and filed in the front of my " Ferrari restoration information" section which now has well over eighty operating, parts and workshop manuals for mostly the road cars from the early 250s to the 308/328 V8s as well as countless first hand articles of how to and how not to details of specific restorations. My over arching thought on the subject is that far to often not enough time is spent on researching the original specs and even well done restoration often fail to resemble much of what was original or considered original for a particular s/n. tongascrew
I went through the certification process for my 330 2+2 and believe I got value for money. The cost at just under euro 2 k is reasonable for the efort that Ferrari put in. The book didn't tell me anything I didn't already know but as some others have said it was a much cheaper addition to the car than having to buy books and tools because previous owners/ dealers have "nicked" them The guy who does this work in the UK is a top bloke and provides a very good an honest service.
Only Euro 2,000 for Classiche now? This seems like a price drop or is it the difference in other country markets
2k was what I paid to Ferrari via Marrenello Egam. Then I paid the assessor here in the UK less than GBP 1k to photograph the car complete the forms and see the process through. I had to change a few things to make them comply. Fuel pump, my reversing light was missing and a few other small things. The whole process was very easy. I know there are some people on here who scoff at the idea of certification but my view is that it's simply another check that "it's not 2 cars welded together with a ford escort engine" in the front. Of course I know that my car is the real thing and I didn't do the certification with a view to selling it (plan to keep it and pass it on to my son) but for less than the cost of a bag of rusty Beta 55 spanners it's a nice thing to have on the shelf and a good way for someone like me with a lowly 2+2 to interact with the factory and start to build a relationship with them and people who can help me be a good custodian into the future
You can get a quote from your Dealer. The car does not have to go any where, they submit the required photos...
I checked the invoice last night it was Euro 1941. All the assessor needed was the car on a ramp so and wheels off He spent a day checking her. Took countless photos that were sent to Italy and a committee there looks at the request and either asks for more info /photos or says pass. Simple and as I said the guy in the UK who did it was one of the nicest blokes out there.
For the record, the exact cost of Classiche certification (in the UK at least) varies from one model to the next. Furthermore, for the older and rarer cars where metallurgy tests on the chassis are requested by the factory, the additional cost can be substantial. For what it's worth, I do understand the point of Classiche if it is supposed to be an official stamp of 'correctness' by the factory. My main frustration stems from the numbers of cars I see which are NOT correct and yet have been given this certification. Not only that, but where perhaps original (and even reproduction) items are simply not available, Ferrari seems to change the rules on an almost weekly basis about what is allowed and what is not. Whatever the flaws of Classiche - and they are numerous - there is no doubt that certification adds value to the car. Sure, there are plenty of enthusiasts on here who will say "I couldn't care less - I look for other things", but from an objective and global perspective, it adds value. It's as simple and indisputable as that. Picking up on Onno's point about artisans... never underestimate the importance of the true specialists in making these cars as good as possible. One European supplier I know of is so highly regarded that it is them who informs the Classiche inspector of what is correct and original (and not the other way around). -Ed
Agree with almost everything. Since there is now a new boss at FC the goal is even higher: more revenues. Much more. Don't be naive guys, this is nothing else than a pure profit centre. Therefore, the prices for the certification are going up big time, they are now all based on market value of a specific car (factory wants their slice of the cake as well!). So, a 275 GTB/4 at 4 Million $ is a bit more costly to certify than a "mundane" 308 GTBi". And on and on. Marcel Massini
They are just too embarrassed to admit that they don't have all the answers and all the materials available to make the cars 100% original, so they create their "own" way.
A minor aside, but I hate the graphic design of the binder and the classiche logo. It looks so cheap, like something you would see employed as a menu for a crappy "retro" diner in a shopping mall. Given Ferrari's rich history of producing attractive printed material, particularly in the Enzo era, it's a disgrace. Anybody else agree, or is it just me?
Another point is why don't they write the entire chassis number including the suffix on the all-important certificate? Let's say it is a 500 Testa Rossa chassis clearly stamped "0670 MDTR" on the chassis, the certificate says only "0670" and is without the suffix "MDTR". Next question: Why don't they list the body number in the red book? Every 250 GTE 2+2 or 330 GTC or 275 GTB/4 or Daytona etc has a Pininfarina or a Scaglietti body number, or cars of the 1950s have either a Touring body number or a Vignale body number. And on and on. Marcel Massini
Completely agree. Add the logos for the respective "Ferrari Club of (wherever)" to this list of ridiculous graphics. George
Marcel: With the staff at Classiche today, it is entirely possible that they do not realize that "MDTR" is actually part of the chassis number! I am also not totally sure Ferrari has records that tell them ALL the PF or other early bodybuilders Body Numbers.
Dyke: You and I we both know a bit or two about these cars. As for the suffixes it would perhaps be recommended to have a look on the cover pages of the build sheets......... if they actually have them......... They also don't have a list showing the INTERNAL engine numbers of the 250 Europas and 375 Americas............. as I said before, and on and on...... I continue to scratch my head how a company can offer a "service" to their clients without having sufficient data or evidence......... Marcel Massini
Lol correct. Why use round tube for a 1960s car when F can use square tube! Is it original? Yes! Ferrari Spa modifies the car 50 years later (and not a restoration shop) Great isn't it? #classicheBS
