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Cloth Braided fuel line alternatives

Discussion in '308/328' started by Rolly, Sep 23, 2019.

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  1. Rolly

    Rolly Rookie

    May 6, 2004
    7
    Ontario, Canada
    I replaced all of my fuel lines about six years ago with original appearing cloth braided lines made in Germany and had the work done by a local Ferrari specialist. I've only driven about 2000 km since but this year have had two fuel leaks in the lines at contact points with holding brackets and connecting point.

    Considering changing to something more modern, especially after reading this article that mirrors my experience. Any advice/recommendations?

    https://jalopnik.com/why-do-braided-fuel-lines-suck-so-much-am-i-missing-so-1745317223
     
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  3. Smiles

    Smiles Moderator
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  4. Peter

    Peter F1 Veteran
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  5. conan

    conan Formula Junior

    Nov 13, 2011
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    If the apperance is important, I guess there is almost nothing durable on the market nowadays. There are only a few good options for fuel lines, PTFE, metal or ECO/FKM rubber.
     
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  6. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
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    #5 johnk..., Sep 24, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2019
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  8. Rolly

    Rolly Rookie

    May 6, 2004
    7
    Ontario, Canada

    Thank you....honestly, at this point, after two gas leaks on my hoses that looked fine because the cloth disguises the condition of the lines I'm more concerned about the safety than appearance. So I'm really considering modern, hopefully superior alternatives.
     
  9. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 8, 2007
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    The Porsche Guys are having HUGE Problems with the cloth braided FUEL Rated lines from EVERY manufacturer, especially the OEM one who supplied Porsche and to the best of my research, also supplied Ferrari.

    Seems they WILL NOT hold-up to 'gas' with an EAN above something near ZERO.

    They seem to work fine today with Fuel Vapor though. Just DON'T move Liquid thru them, even the 'FUEL Rated' ones.


    There MAY BE an alternative out there. Some of the Porsche Guys are trying this:

    https://www2.codan.com/node/28212

    And reporting much better results.

    But Codan says right here '... NOT to be used in FI applications, but call for more info.' They MAY mean not for HI Pressure use, but 'regular' pressures are 'Ok.' Don't know.


    This is the best current info I have but it may NOT be complete.
     
  10. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
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    Jun 11, 2004
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    The one I bought from Bell Metric seem to be holing up to E10 just fine.

    Also, there is not a single high pressure (FI) hose on a 308 that is braded. Hi pressure is only between the fuel pump and injectors. All the hoses between tanks and the returns from the vapor separator and the fuel distributor are low pressure and don't require FI rated hoses.
     
  11. Hannibal308

    Hannibal308 F1 Rookie
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    I use Aeroquip Startlite and it holds up fine but only available in AN sizes.
     
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  13. Martin308GTB

    Martin308GTB F1 Rookie

    Jan 22, 2003
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    +1
    I use FPM/ECO lines since 15-20 years years. Even the most reputable suppliers over here, like Cohline or Wurth state on their datasheets to no more using the cloth braided NBR-lines on fuel systems.
    I vote for safety. Looks come second.

    Best from Germany
    Martin
     
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  14. absostone

    absostone F1 Veteran
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  15. Martin308GTB

    Martin308GTB F1 Rookie

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    They -claim- that theirs are ethanol safe. But besides this, ethanol is not the only problem. All the other crap they mix into our gas today together with today's mean parts quality is the problem.
    I clearly claim; "no more NBR for fuel hoses".

    Best from Germany
    Martin
     
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  16. ClydeM

    ClydeM F1 Veteran
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    Nov 4, 2003
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    I had all my fuel lines replaced with quality cloth 6 years ago and last year two vent hoses cracked causing a gas smell. This year a couple more cloth lines went. So much for quality cloth ☹️
     
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  17. Martin308GTB

    Martin308GTB F1 Rookie

    Jan 22, 2003
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    I recently replaced my FPM/ECO fuel hoses after 10 years just for precaution. But they were still looking as if they would last forever.

    Best from Germany
    Martin
     
  18. Volodymyr Martsinkovskyi

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  19. Martin308GTB

    Martin308GTB F1 Rookie

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    AN-sizes. Not suitable for our our mostly 8mm (and one 6mm) fittings on the carb cars.

    Best from Germany
    Martin
     
  20. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie
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  21. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
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    Jun 11, 2004
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    SAE j30R7 is fine for the 308 as none of the hoses are on the high pressure side of the fuel injection.
     
  22. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie
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    John

    R7 has a much higher permittivity at 550g/m2.day against R9 which is 15.
    R9 is compatible with low pressure fuel lines and esigned for bio fuels
    R7 is not suitable with ethanol gasoline products

    + the difference in price is small so go for the best option imo

    tony
     
  23. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
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    Permittivity is just an emissions thing.

    From Goodyear for their SAE 30R7

    https://www.goodyearrubberproducts.com/2012pdfs/Goodyear_Commercial_Truck_Belts_and_Parts/files/assets/downloads/page0031.pdf

    ????? Maybe it's just Goodyears spec.
     
  24. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie
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    Maybe, but it really depends on what fuel you use, with modern fuels we use up to E10 (UK) and will increase over time to possibly E20.

    NBR is a poor material to use with Petrol / Ethanol fuels.

    FKM [perfluroelostomer] is the best I believe which good branded R9 fuel is. Codan has the liner in FKM with a NBR outer.

    https://www2.codan.com/node/28273

    Permittivity is a measure of how much vapour passes thru the hose, the higher the worse it is and leads to fuel smells when there isn't actually a leak!

    Best

    Tony
     
  25. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
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    Jun 11, 2004
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    Yes, I agree, but the permittivity spec is based on environmental considerations; how much hydrocarbon vapor escapes to the atmosphere. The lower R9 spec is largely in response to those concerns. You aren't going to smell the vapor that escapes through the hose. If you did, everyone's garage would smell like fuel all the time.
     
  26. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie
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    Its also based on the rate at which the vapour penetrates the hose (under SAE testing), the higher the value (R7 =500) the worse it is. This in turn breaks down the rubber [if its not suitable] and leads to the hose breaking down (cracking) over a very short period in some cases, the first sign is petrol smells even though you cannot see a leak at first.

    Beware also there is a lot of rubbish R9 hose out there ie fake, mostly using inferior materials. Codan is the best but look at the hose, anyone can put R9 writing on it. !!


    Best

    tony
     
  27. Martin308GTB

    Martin308GTB F1 Rookie

    Jan 22, 2003
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    Martin N.
    While PTFE is a great, versatile stuff for all kinds of fluids - I have custom made drysump oil lines with inner PTFE liners- the stiff PTFE inner liner in AN-sizes will never fit correctly on our metric fittings.
    My oil lines are metric Airbus supply, so fit perfectly on the original Ferrari fittings together with new press sleeves of course.


    Best from Germany
    Martin
     
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