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Cold tires = end swap in 355

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by RichardGilmore, Jan 13, 2004.

  1. RichardGilmore

    RichardGilmore Karting

    Nov 9, 2003
    57
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Full Name:
    Richard Gilmore
    Coming home from Dinner last Sat night I turned on to my street at normal speed (well - for my 355) a flat 45 degree turn at about 30mph and the car did a 180 in what seemed like a patch of ice. The car wound up in the other lane facing the light!
    I had only traveled about 2 miles from the restaraunt and since it was about 30 degrees out I guess the tires (brand new p-Zero's) had not warmed up and were hard. Thankfully nobody was in the other lane or the passenger seat. The only damage was some soiled boxers!

    Anyone else dumb enough to have this happen?

    Richard
     
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  3. rudy

    rudy Formula Junior

    Jan 13, 2004
    360
    Los Angeles California
    Full Name:
    Rudy Hassen
    I had a similiar experience in a 95 355 Spider on Topanga Cyn road a few years back. I was going down hill at a reasonable speed (honest) and the back out came around. Fortunatly, no one else was around and I caught it pretty quickly. I blamed it on my Michelin Pilots and switched to Bridgestone something or others. I actually don't know if the tires were the issue. I think it's "a mid-engine kind-a-thing"

    Rudy
     
  4. Diablo

    Diablo Formula Junior

    I have taked to a few people, they all blame the car...

    But really, it is the fact that the tires are not warmed up at all, and at that temperature probably will never get to operating temp.

    Heck race slicks will even crack when rolling at low temps.

    It is the same with motorcycles.
    I took my bike out of the garage one day and tried to make a turn, the bike decided otherwise.

    So all i can say is take it slow when it is cold.

    Good luck
     
  5. LetsJet

    LetsJet F1 Veteran
    Owner

    May 24, 2004
    9,238
    DC/LA/Paris/Haleiwa
    Full Name:
    Mr.
    Bringing this thread back alive.

    Remember it's getting cold out there and tires are going to be hard. I lost the back end today just out of my community. This is the first cold season I've had in the car and I didn't expect it to be that loose. There is a big difference with changes in tire temps.

    So this is your reminder ------- Let 'em warm up.
     
  6. 95spiderman

    95spiderman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2003
    10,256
    ny
    almost had this happen on drive home from picking my car up 3 yrs ago. cold january day with worn 8 yr old tires but i think driver error also involved esp if down shifting into turn and not matching revs can cause spin.
     
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  8. dwhite

    dwhite F1 Rookie

    Warm day cold night = possible condensation on the road. This is the worst type of condition, as it will bring oil to the surface, just like a fine rain. That is my guess. i imagine it won't happen again -. the spin, the boxer problem is just part of the fcar experience :)
     
  9. 208 GT4

    208 GT4 Formula 3

    Dec 27, 2003
    1,699
    Brighton (UK)
    Full Name:
    Dan
    The setup that makes a Ferrari handle "like a Ferrari" makes for a very enjoyable car under the right conditions, but you have to make allowances when conditions are poor.

    Don't feel bad about it, it's been a relatively painless learning experience.
     
  10. 355flyer

    355flyer Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2004
    338
    Gadsden, Alabama
    Full Name:
    Andy Entrekin
    Try the Michelin Pilot Sports PS2. A little softer rubber and good cold weather traits.
     
  11. maranelloman

    maranelloman Guest

    You said "brand new P-Zeros".

    How brand new were they?

    New tires tend to be EXTREMELY greasy for the first 400-500 miles of use, and this is accentuated in extreme weather conditions (cold, wet, etc.). This is regardless of the make of tire.

    Perhaps this was your problem?
     
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  13. dwhite

    dwhite F1 Rookie

    Dave is absolutly correct, new tires can be slippery until scrubbed a bit.
     
  14. Joe G.

    Joe G. Formula 3
    BANNED

    Dec 9, 2003
    1,077
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    Joe Gazzani
    i had the back end come around on a canyon road once in my F355

    i wasn't goin' too fast either

    must not have had the tires warm
    or
    some dirt on the road
    not sure
    but scared the crap out of me as well

    :)
     
  15. RichardGilmore

    RichardGilmore Karting

    Nov 9, 2003
    57
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Full Name:
    Richard Gilmore
    The tires were not that new. I learned that lesson in 1975 in my '68 Camaro - brand new tires and going around a corner - severe understeered into a phone pole. Gee that car would be worth today......


    Cheers,

    R
     
  16. cgperry

    cgperry Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 2, 2003
    504
    Chas SC
    Full Name:
    Charles Perry
    I had the same thing happen to me twice the first week I had my 98 355 spider. Turned out that the tires were severely worn on the inside edge (like belts showing) but because of the heavy camber on the car the outer edge looked nice and fresh.

    I guess the belts had worn through on the drive home from buying the car (~1000 miles) since they weren't evident when I picked the car up, but be aware that you can't visually inspect the condition of 355 tires without getting down where you can see all the way across the tread.

    Also, as others mentioned, with brand new tires it takes a few hundred miles before the mold-release compounds get worn off the surface. Until then, even the best tires can seem very dicey. Be GENTLE on new tires!
     
  17. 348SStb

    348SStb F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    I know someone who tried to be cute in his 360 coupe in February and almost paid dearly.

    He was on a two-lane highway; upon approaching a slight turn, he accelerated. He then ended up doing a couple of spins until he landed on the grass on his side of the road. Luckily there was only grass around.

    He blamed the car. He calls the car "dangerous."

    No, it's not the car. The tires were cold. He was only 2 miles from his starting point, at which the car had been sitting for a while.

    Please remember this: PERFORMANCE TIRES ARE NOT MADE FOR THE WINTER!

    Even if the tires are warm, performance tires are not designed to grip the road in cold temperatures. The rubber composites are just not designed for that purpose. That's why they're called "summer" tires. :D

    PLEASE BE CAREFUL IN THE COLD! Don't be cute in the winter time... you don't really need to accelerate around that turn. :)
     
  18. KurtK328

    KurtK328 Formula Junior

    Mar 6, 2001
    347
    Villeneuve-Loubet, France
    Full Name:
    Kurt Kjelgaard
    A good rule of thumb is to use wintertires below 7 C (45 F).
    They can be M+S tires or even snow tires - the important thing is that the rubber compund is designed for the lower temps
     
  19. infraredline

    infraredline Formula 3

    Mar 15, 2004
    1,029
    San Francisco
    Full Name:
    John
    i had the back end step out on my focus (hey - it's a momentum car!). Hit the inside shoulder HARD. Now I don't have a focus.

    Careful on cold wet nights especially when you think you know the turn well.
     
  20. ze_shark

    ze_shark Formula 3

    Jul 13, 2003
    1,273
    Switzerland (NW)
    Temperature has an effect on grip, but also on pressure, did you check if your tire pressure is ok ? Cold weather means significant decrease in tire pressure.
    I would not expect under-inflated tires to result in such snappy handling, but can certainly testify that over-inflated tires (high temp, track use) can make the 355 overly tail happy.

    I also had a "moment" once in my 550 coming on from the washing station, the soap had made the PZeros amazingly slippery.
     
  21. F355Bvc

    F355Bvc Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 4, 2003
    1,485
    Lawrenceville. GA
    Full Name:
    Vince Canipelli
    Check your 4 wheel alignment. When I first got my '96 355B, I had handling problems, rear end coming around. The alignment was way off. When reset to ferrari specs, the car behaved perfect...
     

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