"Comp Daytona" at Sheehans....

targanero,

You may very well be correct that as we all age, the cars that were associated with the "old guard" seem to lose their extraordinary luster. New cars will be accepted into the series (probably 333SPs, F40LMs and F50GTs to begin with), and these cars will ascend in value accordingly.

That said, I think the confusion (and issue) arises when a car is sold as having been run in the Historics. I think it was a surprise to emena and amenasce that their BBLM wasn't eligible. The car had run in the series (albeit only in the non-points, exhibition class), so I suspect they had every expectation to be able to continue to campaign it there. The car is eligible for other series, of course, but if you want to run in the Historic Challenge, the car has to be approved. Or, you have to be "someone".

I do have issues in filling the grid in thin times with otherwise ineligible cars (and I don't think I'm alone in this), but that's my own bias and the organizers will do what they must to ensure the long term viability of the series. I also believe that the Historic Challenge has other issues that may cause its demise. I won't go into them here, but I do hope that's not the case.

Anyway, this discussion takes nothing away from the car itself. It's appears to be a well-built racing Daytona conversion/replica/tribute/whatever. I suppose, if I have an issue, it's that one might infer from the advertising that the car is Historic eligible. This could be misrepresentation by omission. Sheehan never says the car is eligible, in fact. What he does is show that the car has run in the Historics. Knowing the rules and seeing the history of the car makes me wonder how that can be the case. You'd have to know to ask the question of the organizers before buying this car, and in at least one instance, the owner was surprised to find that they couldn't drive it in the Historic Challenge.

Listen, if you just want a cool ride, this would be a lot of fun and bang for the buck. However, if you're buying it to specifically compete in the Historics, the prospective owner should ask whether the car is eligible beforehand. Problem is, if you haven't run in the series, you might not know to ask. Caveat emptor applies, of course.

CW

 

"Now priced at only $419,950"..................just got an e-mail.

 

I think it should have "in period" seats.........LOL!

That would be the full experience....

 

Mike's car was parked next to mine at the Recent FCA Concours on Colorado Blvd in Pasadena,Ca. I have also seen him drive it on the street quite a long way to local FCA events. I think that everyone who has seen it and heard it in person would enjoy driving it on road or track. This is a real Daytona carefully modified into a race car and at least it is not just sitting in someones garage and not turning a wheel. Too many of the older cars have become so valuable that they rarely are seen in public. Cheers to Mike for creating this car and I think it should be able to run in the Historic races !

 

+1

 

Tell that to all the owners of legitimate Comp Daytona's on track in the Historic Challenge who've paid 5x or more for theirs!

It's more than eligible (and would be very welcome) at HSR, VSRA and other events. It's only ineligible for the Historic Challenge. So, showing pictures of it as having competed in the Historic Challenge is a bit cheeky as the new owner might find that they can't enjoy it in the same manner.

CW

 

Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Do they really care?? I would think that other owners/racers would be thrilled just to have another Daytona in their class to run with.

 

BHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHA

 

..Hello ...the Daytona you see below has s/n 16617 and is a competition conversion ...modified in 2003....Dominique BARDIN droves this car at magny-cours , in France ..

 

I looked Mike's car over pretty closely at the Old Town Pasadena Show as well and it is a pretty neat piece. No vintage race history, but still very nice. The car is also priced accordingly.

 

Can't say it any better than Jim did.

CW

 

I was also parked next to Mike's car at Pasadena. It was very interesting to compare his car with my stock Euro Daytona. Many other attendees felt the same way.

The 15 "real" Daytona comp cars are not often seen. Having a well made "recreation" around is neat. And I'll bet its a thrill ride. I'd love to get a ride in it or even drive it.

 

It is interesting that a previous poster mentioned the F50GTs- correct me if I am wrong but as I understood it- NONE of them had period racing histories as per the contractual terms between Ferrari and the buyers

 

This is correct, but I bet you'll see them be accepted anyway. I'm sure there's a way to do it. Same for 288GTO Evolutziones. If they want it in, they'll let them in.

Also, the F50 (both GT and street version) has an engine derived from the 333SP. So, I bet without too much effort, there's a catch-all or loophole way to get them in. No problema.

CW

 

Point well taken

 

I'd make sure that the driver has gotten a bit of heat into the tires of that Puppy and that he rolls on the throttle before getting too close...

 

I'm going to have to remember that!

And, btw, we've yet to see the F40GTs, LMs or GTEs be eligible, which would precede F50GTs. So, they're a ways off. Lots of water will pass under the bridge before they're in. And, I think there will be increasing pressure to expand the grid at Historic Challenge events. Mt. Tremblant had all of 13 cars on the track (6 drum and 7 disc). That's not enough. One way to increase the grid is to start admitting new cars.

FNA ran an exhibition class for 333SPs at Road America about 5 or 6 years ago, but since then they haven't been active in the Historic Challenge. Seen a few on track at Corsa Clienti events with F1 and FXXs, but it should only be a matter of time before the 333SPs are eligible. Of course, they're currently eligible for HSR (and VSRA, I think).

CW

 

"BHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHA"



As someone who regularly races in multi-class events, I can understand irritation with the making of exceptions to the rules, and with having to possibly contend on track with non-points cars to get to the head of a points paying class.

Have to wonder, though, if it's about either of those concerns, or the real issue is proper Ferrari owners (I can't get enough of that phrase!) versus the unwashed?

I agree with CWs comments about the marketing of Sheehan's car.

 

Well, we can't have grit underneath the fingernails in the paddock, now can we?

I kid, I kid!

BTW, there are couple of owners that show up self-supported. They do their own wrenching sometimes. I will say, though, they it's a lot of work on a race weekend to buy fuel, get tires from tire supplier, make adjustments (engine, brake, aero or suspension), re-fuel, check tire pressures, keep track of times, once-over the car before going out, once-over it again after coming in, learn the track, relax and compose, stay fed and hydrated AND drive. Especially between sessions and when on a deadline. You've only got about 1.5 hours between sessions at the Historic Challenge. So, if you're the one doing the support in addition to driving, it's a tall order.

I'd also add that all owners of legitimate cars seem to be welcomed. There are certainly a few of the old guard with some insanely expensive cars who kind of keep to themselves, but that's just their thing and their group. There are plenty of newly-minted F car guys who show up and get along nicely. There have been a few instances of oil and water, but, for the most part, all comers are encouraged and welcomed.

CW

 

did the one for sale in belgium sell ? It looked nice but at 500k Euros was a bit OTT.

 

Id love to drive one in the streets...or on the Route Napoleon.

 

Andrew,

This one could have your name written on it!

Nothing says you can't offer a lower price, and given the economic climate, you might just get it.

CW

 

This one is for sale in The Netherlands, 13851, Winner Tour de France Automobiles 1995.
500K+ EURO I heard on Techno Classica show, Essen, Germany 2008

12681, Sheehans car is a very well made comp daytona, body done by Hietbrink Coachbuilding and the engineering done by Roelofs. Sheehan modified it with a rear spoiler.
Here is its sister car, 13901: http://www.flickr.com/photos/16878894@N00/26836254 built by the same guys as 12681. http://www.hietbrink.com/365gtb4/13901.htm

Does it really matter if someone drives FAKE Ferraris at HC series??? If one like to save its original car and commissioned someone to build a replica of his original car, and stamped it ######R or even the original donor number then this should be no problem, we want to see Ferraris race! There are more replicas out there which we believe they are the Real McCoy, but they are not!

Cheers!
Tom
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Well, to the owners of the Real McCoy it often matters. I'll give you an example. One owner owns a rather well-known example of an early '70's racer. Due to extensive deterioration of the chassis, he had a "replica" built. The old chassis was unsafe. Period. I was told that the new chassis was lengthened slightly to accommodate his height, but I have never personally verified it. In all other respects, I was told the original chassis was copied, and it was retained in storage. I had heard that the car was entirely manufactured, but, later, I was told everything including the engine and transmission were moved over into the new chassis by someone who should know. Anyway, the owner was essentially racing a brand new chassis.

Another owner who was racing his similar model that didn't have as much chassis fatigue objected, as he was now unable to race with the other owner due to concerns about his own safety and chassis integrity. So, should an owner race a "replica" against an original? It's been done before, and it was done to accommodate an important owner. I think it was an unusual case and should probably be discouraged, but it did happen. I see your point, but why should I risk my $12/15/20MM 250GTO against your $300K 250GTE-built-up-as-a-GTO? If you've got a GTO, let's have at it. But, you're also qualifying your comment by assuming the owner has an original GTO in their possession. So, this is a relatively small group, and some accommodations could be made. So, if an owner of a legitimate Comp Daytona bought it and brought it to a HC event, it's likely that the next objection this Comp Daytona would get is that it's an upgraded version. I think there may be ways to deal with that, but it's an objection.

And, as every car is "supposed" to be Classiche certified, how will Classiche regard this new chassis I referred to or the upgrades on this "replica" Daytona? It wasn't built by Ferrari, so I guess it's not Classiche certifiable. We'll see, I suppose, but how can this chassis or Comp Daytona be eligible for the HC? Important owner(s). I'm OK with it, I suppose, but technically, it's not legal per F's own rules. I guess we should say "bendable" rules. And, once you get on the slippery slope of deciding which cars are or aren't going to be admitted even if they're not Classiche certifiable... BTW, I wouldn't be surprised if we see legal actions taken at some point over all of this Classiche-certified nonsense in the Historic Challenge.

Also, we need less fakes in the Ferrari world. There was a time when unscrupulous sales weasels sold things that weren't what they were advertised to be. Is it easier to fudge something on the older cars? Memories fade, people die, documents are lost/forged/"miraculously found".

However, I have no real, serious objection to these Hietbrink/Roelofs cars and the advertising clearly states that it's basically so-modified. In other words, Mike isn't trying to sell it as an original. So, technically, he's not misrepresenting it, either. However, I do think that if someone purchases it without doing their homework, they might think that they could show up at a HC race and be welcomed with open arms. Won't happen. But, if you want a really cool street car, a fun track day toy, or something to go and run in HSR/VSRA events, then this is pretty interesting.

CW