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Conversation of a Digiplex 801A to 802A possible ?

Discussion in '308/328' started by paul01, Nov 1, 2019.

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  1. paul01

    paul01 Rookie

    Jul 31, 2011
    33
    #1 paul01, Nov 1, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2019
    Hi,

    is it possible to convert a Digiplex 801A (US) to a 802A (EU) by:
    • changing the chip
    • disconnect Pin 6
    ?

    @admin: Please change to "conversion"
    Regards
    Paul
     
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  3. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Mark W.R.
    Snoop and contact banned member 'Fastradio' IIRC.

    He has done such things, and with new parts, but there is a Legal and an Ethics issue involved that he wont break.

    If you need more info PM me.
     
  4. paul01

    paul01 Rookie

    Jul 31, 2011
    33
    Hi Mark,
    indeed both issues are new for me if you don´t only speak about his work.

    Some guys had changed the complete modules Digiplex 801A and use a 802A, others had changed the complete ignition system. Maybe that is not allowed, i don´t know.
    "Ethics issue": Invironment (Umweltverschmutzung) ? My 308 GTSi US has no catalysts since i bought it in the 90s. It is more or less nearly an EU car (no fast idle, no air pump,...). But you maybe right.

    So maybe we are able to find out if it is possible (only technically).

    Gruß (ich tue mich etwas schwer mit Englisch)
    Paul
     
  5. dave80gtsi

    dave80gtsi Formula 3
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    Years ago I purchased a pair of 802A modules, left-over NOS from an EU supplier. I replaced my OEM 801A modules in my USA-spec car, and I can confirm that the swap is 100% plug-and-play. No other tweaking or modifications are required.

    The end result is a notable performance boost for the car, due primarily to the advanced timing offered by the 802A. Do a forum search here, as this topic has been discussed frequently in the past.

    Of course, my comments are directed only at the performance differences between them - one should always check local regulations before considering such a swap.
     
  6. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Paul,

    I am an American living in Germany but my command of the language is horrendously bad.

    IF you live in Germany it is OK for all that crap to come off, as I understand it.

    As for now, the Germans dont give a crap about 'Pollution S***' present or missing on a 30+ year old car. Besides, how many are there?

    They are just damn happy it is still on the road.
     
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  8. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Dave,

    Just an note.

    Although the cams themselves are the same as I understand it, the valve timing is set differently.

    The EURO Exhaust Cam's timing are different from the US cars by 4°
     
  9. paul01

    paul01 Rookie

    Jul 31, 2011
    33
    Dave,
    ok, you are one of the guys with that module swap.
    I have read nearly all the posts of this topic in the past before starting this thread.

    Mark,
    yes i live in south germany too (where nobody speaks german language).
    In an old thread the differences in cams/timing were mentioned. But i didn´t understand all of that. If cams are the same and e.g. 4° are fix, so it maybe possible to do this with the pins in the exhaust pulleys. But this is another thing.

    I saw a 89711-24pin chip inside. Isn´t it an EPROM that contains the ignition advance curves ?
    I thought about putting it out, use a socket and put another chip in the socket.

    Paul
     
  10. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
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  11. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Four Time F1 World Champ
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  13. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    I live near Weiden.

    How about you?


    Sorry but I really know nothing much about these 'boxes' at all.

    Especially the internals.
     
  14. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
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    I had the same reaction (as I searched on "Ferrari Service of Bedford" to get his website link, but it came up "Sarasota Italian Garage") -- if you read his "about" page, it says he recently relocated from NH to FLA.
     
  15. paul01

    paul01 Rookie

    Jul 31, 2011
    33
    Steve, Mark,
    ok. Fastradio is a specialist for these modules and offers good quality rebuilds and other things. (In germany there is Digiplex Adrian). And this guy can not answer here for some reason.

    These are my modules 801A. An older one and a newer one:
    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    And the chip:

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Paul (near Karlsruhe and Stuttgart)
     
  16. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Who is Digiplex Adrian?

    I am down around Karlsruhe from time to time. How close are you?
     
  17. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
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    Might be more accurate to call him "Dinoplex Adrian" (but he may do Digiplex things as well).

    Adrian's FChatter user name is alhbln -- his website:

    http://www.dinoplex.org

    If you do a search on "Dinoplex", he almost always gives very useful technical responses to every Dinoplex-related thread.
     
  18. paul01

    paul01 Rookie

    Jul 31, 2011
    33
    Hi,
    i have answer from www.fluentinferrari.com . The way here is to send him the modules and he inserts new components. So you can also get a 802A if you send him a 801A. If i would have bad/demaged modules this would be a good way to go. Maybe his modules are better than new ones.
    My 801A modules are working. So i can´t go this way.

    Steve, Mark,
    yes that is Adrian. But not only Dino..Digi..
    For me the best thing he did for a another car forum was the first professional test to find coils for another italian car:
    https://www.carpassion.com/forum/thema/57545-diablo-z%C3%BCndspule-z%C3%BCndmodul-z%C3%BCndung
    By the way some Testarossa use the same ones as the car in that thread.

    Paul (20 km to Karlsruhe)
     
  19. alhbln

    alhbln Formula 3
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    Mar 4, 2008
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    Adrian
    Unfortunately you can't convert a 801A to a 802A as the advance curve (the main difference between the 801A US and 802A EU mode) is stored in the RCA 1800 MCU.

    Paul, 89711 is the type number, search for RCA1800 to find the family description. You can dump the EPROM with some tricks but then again you would not be able to get OEM replacements based on this chip as it has been out of production for decades and was only available to Marelli in this pin out configuration.

    The circuit could be reengineered for another MCU but then again, building a more robust and easy to repair replacement board would be less work. I have developed a replacement board some years ago, but as there were several companies working on such a replacement i did not see the need to continue. So if there is some supplier offering a conversion to a modern replacement board then that would be your best option. Ideally you can even reprogram the curve on a rolling road to adapt the advance curve to your engine and your nees.
     
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  20. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Paul, Adrian,

    David can/will convert 801As to 802As for people in countries that had 802As as OEM.

    I believe he replaces MOST/ALL(?) the internals for new, as his cost is somewhat expensive to the pure know-nothing layman of such things, like myself.

    At one time and maybe still, he would NOT make the conversion for US cars unless they were owned/driven OUTSIDE the USA, as he thought he could possibly run afowl of some US Govt Agency. That was a few years ago.

    What his policy on making the change is now, I don't know.

    Id certainly email him and ask if interested.

    Besides, Greenpeace won't 'come after you' for killing a few electrons ... at least not yet. :D
     
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  21. paul01

    paul01 Rookie

    Jul 31, 2011
    33
    Adrian,
    you are a show stopper, a performance brake, ...

    Ok, thank you for the detailed information. If we can not get the old parts we can´t go on. I searched in the garden behind the
    dinosaur bones. Nothing.

    I am no electronic specialist. I thought to do something like this (in an ECU this year for a test and other users):
    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    It was used for one test drive only. There is a socket that allows a quick and save change of the EPROM with other data. And all worked fine.

    Mark,
    good remarks. He knows that i am from Germany.
    I think he will change all parts. Maybe not the Air Pressure Sensor, because this is not available. Perhaps he has another solution for this APS.

    It is a good situation that we have somebody who can renew the digiplex modules. The situation for the ECU above is another one.

    Paul
     
  22. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Paul,

    I think Adrian meant '... Not Convert ...' as to meaning via a simple one or two €0.50 cent part swap.

    Thru his Tach and Speedo projects/products he has apply demonstrated almost anything in the electronics world can be done, but often requires a COMPLETE redesign and rebuild with many new parts, as old OEM parts are often NLA and 'Plug-n-Play' part-swapping hadn't been invented yet.

    I seriously doubt he was trying to be a 'Show-Stopper.'
     
  23. paul01

    paul01 Rookie

    Jul 31, 2011
    33
    Mark,
    yes Adrian is a specialist.

    Hi,
    a comment of www.fluentinferrari.com to "I think he will change all parts. Maybe not the Air Pressure Sensor, because this is not available. Perhaps he has another solution for this APS."
    -> "All of the internal components are new, including the vacuum sensor."

    So this thread "...is it possible to convert a Digiplex 801A (US) to a 802A (EU) by changing the chip.." is answered.
    theoretically maybe, but not practically/realistic

    Thanks to the supporters here.
    Paul
     
  24. alhbln

    alhbln Formula 3
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    What i meant was that you cannot convert an US to an EU Digiplex (as example by modding it), but you could rebuild the unit with new electronics. If there is a supplier who can do this then this is the way to go.

    The electronics in the Digiplex 80x are not very complex and can easily be build using nowadays components, the timing requirements are also not that complicated. It just takes some time to design, built and especially test it. I already designed and build the hardware some years ago (see below) but did not start on the software as there were two companies already working on this, so there should be some alternatives available :)


    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  25. paul01

    paul01 Rookie

    Jul 31, 2011
    33
    Adrian,
    "you could rebuild the unit with new electronics" The result would be a machine that asks for water and coffee beans.

    There is an interesting thing in your photo. You continued using the E70 Air Pressure Sensor ? There are no data of this part. I am sure that some of us incl. me don´t know if their sensors are really working. Or they work (tested by disconnecting the vaccum hose) but outside the tolerances. So the additional ignition advance is not as wanted. Do you know how a "normal guy" can test this sensor ?
    Other sensors have a curve pressure-resistance.
    Paul
     
  26. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
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    My guess would be that it's some sort of LVDT sensor -- has anyone taken one apart?
     
  27. tf308

    tf308 Formula 3
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    I would love to get rid of the idle curve built into the US electronic unit. I thought I remember that the retarded curve made the car idle hotter.

    Does the US spec car benefit from more advance that this engineered unit could provide? Has anyone here to played with the timing curves?


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
  28. ferrariowner

    ferrariowner Formula Junior

    Feb 21, 2014
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    The US timing curve and retarded cam timing is to help with catalytic converter efficiency. Hotter exhaust at idle and faster cat lite off. Not a plus for performance. A US car would benefit (performance wise) from the timing advance at the expense of emissions.
     

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