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Copyright photographers

Discussion in 'Creative Arts' started by pterps, Feb 19, 2015.

  1. pterps

    pterps F1 Veteran

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    #1 pterps, Feb 19, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Over the years I have seen some great art being created by ferrarichat members (paintings, drawings etc) and there are a lot of great photographers on this forum.

    I post some of my Ferrari pictures on the Dutch thread or in the showroom thread.

    A few days ago I recognised one of my photo's which had been edited in photoshop or some other postprocessing programm. All of my photo's have my logo on the underside of the photo to make clear that there is a copyright on the photo. And that's the way most photographers work to protect their property.

    A few years ago I made some photo's for an Fchat member. I think the result was pretty good and I shared these pictures here on fchat.

    I recognised one of these photo's on facebook this week but then after some horrible postprocessing in photoshop to make it look like some fake drawing. But what caught my attention was the fact that there was a new copyright all over the photo! :eek:

    The creator of this 'so called' drawing told me it wasn't a photo (which he took from fchat btw) any longer but a drawing and it had cost him a lot of time to create this. Even more time than it took me to take the original picture was wat he told me (!). That's why he took my copyright off and put his own copyright on the photo.

    It is clear that this isn't a drawing but just a postprocessed image, so this person has no right to claim it is his creation and put his copyright on.

    Even after trying several time to make it clear to this person how things work with copyrights, he still claims it is his drawing so he can put his copyright on it.

    I share this in this section to warn other photographers and I like to know what you think of this.
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  2. pterps

    pterps F1 Veteran

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    #2 pterps, Feb 19, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    To proof it is my photo and not a new drawing I changed the width of my photo to the width of this drawing and I adjusted the angle and it fits exactly!

    Note: the drawing is in the background and my photo is on top of that with an oppacity of 50%.
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  3. HotShoe

    HotShoe F1 Rookie
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    Go after him relentlessly. People like this need to be taught the hard way. I do believe that some really just don't know it's wrong but it has to stop one way or the other. When I was younger I thought it was "ok" as well until I was educated.

    Unfortunately thanks to photoshop there are a lot of "artists" doing exactly what you described. To be 100% clear it is illegal. Just because you run something thru photoshop and throw some paint splatters on it doesn't make it original art. I've even seen this type of work peddled here and it infuriates me to no end.

    Post #33 of this thread here:

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/ferrari-discussion-not-model-specific-sponsored-algar-ferrari/477135-ive-new-ferrari-garage-2.html

    I admire his effort and the work involved but copying an image from Jesse Alexander directly like that is not only wrong but illegal. Yet nobody questions and and heaps praise on the work despite the fact that it is a copy.

    Artist may only work off their own images. They can use other images for reference but they must not draw over or duplicate the image in any way shape or form. Hell, most of them aren't bright enough to at least change the reflections. I've seen plenty of "art" that is just a direct copy of an image from a Google search. Matching reflections is the dead give away that they just copied the image.

    Unfortunately the general public doesn't know what to ask. They see a canvas "giclee" for cheap and don't even know it is a photo run thru some filters. Until the buying public starts questioning the validity of art this practice will continue.
     
  4. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    +1
     
  5. pterps

    pterps F1 Veteran

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    Thanks for your response, there are more photos on his website and I guess these also belong to other photographers. I hope more people claim their property. He already removed my photo and I hope he will do the same with other photos from other photographers until he gets permission from the legal owners to use them.
     
  6. franmort

    franmort Rookie

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    Gentlemen (I don't think there is a lady in this chat room),
    this is an interesting discussion and possibly you heard about the artist Luc Tuymans who copied or at least inspired his work on Katrijn Van Giel's photograph of the Belgian politician Jean-Marie Dedecker. There is a lot of commotion among artists because of the allegation these days and I am wondering if there ever will be a decisive answer. The good thing is that both artists get free-of-charge publicity and possibly reference to the original photographer and/or agreement with the photographer will result into a compromise.

    But let me not deviate from the subject "Ferrari" too much. I am no Ferrari owner, neither I have a Ferrari or Ferrari engine painted om my wall (awesome by the way), but I am collecting since half a year 1:43 models. From the cars I bought I am downloading documents, vintage photographs, sometimes high quality images used by auctioneering firms and ... yes I confess - because the photographs are downloadable - some with copyright. So please, even I am documenting myself and not sharing and/or publishing these photographs with others, what would be your advice?

    Thanks in advance, Frank
     
  7. davidgoerndt

    davidgoerndt Formula 3

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    There is a common misconception that if you alter someone's work it is considered a "new" work and copyrightable. This is not true. Only the copyright hold can make derivative works. I think nearly every artist on the planet has used other artists work as reference without credit at one time or another. When I was in college this was the case with me and others. I stopped doing this and now only use my own photos as reference for any derivative work. These days if you post something on the internet people assume it's in the public domain and fair game, this is WRONG and illegal.
     
  8. henkie

    henkie La Passione...
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    Aren't we talking here about fellow french/spanish Fchat user Christian.Fr ?
     
  9. wr11265

    wr11265 F1 Rookie

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    Wat een sukkel Peter. Maar wat kan je er tegen doen?
     
  10. JazzyO

    JazzyO F1 World Champ

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    If ever there was a reason to ban somebody, then surely this is it?

    @Peter: I heard recently there is a search engine that allows you to search the internet on metadata. This way you can find people that use your shots. A friend of a friend was the photographer that took the photo of the bathing monkee with the iPhone, you have probably seen it. He found out that Ashton Kutcher had stripped his copyright off and used it on his FB page by using that search engine.... About - TinEye



    Onno

    BTW - this site is also interesting: Stolen Camera Finder - find your photos, find your camera
     
  11. JazzyO

    JazzyO F1 World Champ

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    I looked at his website and this dude is commercially making these images available in print!! Drawing | Christian Oller Photography

    It is clear that most, if not all, of these images are not his own and there is no other word for it: he is a thief.

    This kind of stuff disgusts me.


    Onno

    BTW - claiming that they are drawings is pretty darn rich. Anyone with eyes can see that they have not been hand-drawn.
     
  12. JazzyO

    JazzyO F1 World Champ

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  13. pterps

    pterps F1 Veteran

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    @Henkie, yes it is Christian.fr.

    I gave him the chance to say sorry but he kept saying it is drawing. And ignored my claim.

    @JazzyO, I already heard about tineye and tracking this 'drawing' was the first thing I did after he claimed it was a drawing. The result of tineye was my original photo...not that I had any doubt, I was just searching for proof.

    Thanks to all for the support, I hope he'll get the message and stops doing this.
     
  14. Michele

    Michele Formula Junior

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    Tuymans lost if I am not mistaken and there has been the same kind of controversy about a painted portrait of our king after an official photograph made by photographer Koos Breukel.
     
  15. bigodino

    bigodino F1 World Champ
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    How so? It's his own house and wall, he can do what he wants. It only gets questionable when his publicity leads to commissions. It gets illegal when he does the same mural for others, especially when he gets paid for it.
     
  16. Lesia44

    Lesia44 F1 World Champ
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    #16 Lesia44, Mar 11, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2015
    Well, well, he's taken the page down. Regardless of copyright issues, the guy's obviously a fraud simply for describing the works as drawings (his words: "my personal drawings"). That's simply a lie. And he would have known that.

    Oh, and by the way, the original photo is really nice, the processed version is horrible. And if he's claiming this took him any appreciable amount of time then all I can say is, he really needs to speed up his Photoshopping! If that took you five minutes I'd be asking what you did with the last three of them.
     
  17. Challenge64

    Challenge64 F1 Veteran
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    As a publisher of other people's photos (with permission and royalties paid) what he has done is flat out illegal here in the U.S.

    U.S. copyright is clear and it has given protection to the photographer without a copyright even having been filed. Photographer does not even need to own the camera or car. IE Bradley Cooper taking the selfie with Ellen at the Oscars gives him not her the copyright.
     
  18. Lesia44

    Lesia44 F1 World Champ
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    The whole site is down now. So, despite his insistence with you, he clearly knows he's up to no good.
     
  19. Cozmic_Kid

    Cozmic_Kid F1 Veteran

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    What is the link to the facebook page?
     
  20. davidgoerndt

    davidgoerndt Formula 3

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    This subject appears on photography sites from time to time and always seems to generate some controversy. Some claim if you change an image by 20% it is now yours, which seems to be the most common understanding by those who are infringing a copyright and is completely wrong. The only one allowed to produce derivative is the copyright holder, so the person doing the copying in this thread is clearly in the wrong. The digital age has fostered the belief that if it is posted online, it is in the public domain, again, wrong!
     
  21. Wade

    Wade Two Time F1 World Champ
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  22. Lesia44

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