damage & loss & the track day warrior

There are some exceptions Will. I know I was involved in one this year and it wasn't a driver's fault that my car got damaged. Yes I was pissed because it was VERY avoidable and it could have been very dangerous. I was very lucky in that respect so I decided that was the best way to look at it but I didn't look for someone to sue. I was also the only victim so there wasn't some grieving family, not that they would mind you, with an attorney determined to make some sense out the tragedy via money.

To be frank, I'm still very disturbed about what happened because of the danger involved and as yet no one has dealt with the situation honestly. So, it will happen again.

A lot of time is spent talking to the drivers and qualifying them and their cars. There are other people that need closer scrutiny at these events. When stuff goes wrong you want professionals dealing with it.

Bob S.

 

What fatalities have Skip Barber had?

 

Nice speach Will.

I've often told people that if they're not willing to write the car off completely, do not to go on the track. Usually that gets those that think that worse things can't happen to them out of it...

 

I quickly scanned the reference, and saw that Haybales from a motorcycle event were to blame.

As an ex bike racer, I can see why they are used.

But, The race tracks in the USA would be much safer for all if there was more runoff room. It sucks to hit walls and guard rails, be it with your fender or a padded leather suit.

Since you car guys seem to have more pull than the two wheelers, how about all of us demanding the track owners give us more runoff room?

 

More pull, right.

Look how they have no run off room at the Shenadoah circuit in Summit Point. They eliminated most of the gravel traps at Watkins Glen and there's no foam on the walls now. Is that safer? I don't know. I did go off on turn one at the Glen a month ago due to a steering failure and it was fine with no post gravel travel problems which was nice. But I didn't go straight off at 80 mph either.

Bob S.

 

Wil -

This looks good! May I forward it to our track marshall for our FCA event at VIR (North Course) in November?

Best,
Daniel

 

Either myself or my colleagues give virtually the same talk at the morning drivers meetings.

Someone please enlighten me--what are FCA track day drivers meetings like?

 

Agree ... it is good to reattach everybodies feet firmly to the ground before the adrenaline lifts them again

Pete

 

Will etal,

This thread goes much deeper. As far as injury we ourselves are very responsible. How many people go do tackdays in a stock streetcar? How many have real safety gear? I see helmets that don't fit, floor mats in place, 5th point of harnesses looped over the front seat edge, fire extinguishers with poor mountings, many compromised harness attachment points, improper harness mounts etc... How many harness users who use a rear harness bar to attach the shoulder belts know to make sure the triple plate adjusters should have almost no slack onto the harness bar? How many use a head and neck restraint? How many understand how a antisub strap really works and why one would select 5 or 6 points? How many use a full containment seat? How many use side nets? We just lost a doctor in a radical at Lime rock when he hit an Acura which was stopped and spun on the track during a low level club race. Why do people think it is a good idea to be in a 1500lb small car when everyone else is 3000lbs? Part of the problem is education the other part is laziness, part of the problem is relative percieved value per dollar.

 

I concur with Bob. How many people have no roll bar but use a non-reclining seat (competition seat) with harnesses? How many people incorrectly wear the cam lock above their waistline, instead of in the croch area or between the croch and belt line.

I see stuff that utterly amazes me including instructors who aren't fit to teach my kids to drive on the street let alone the track.

Saftey is being compromised all over the country in both DE's and Racing. It's a wonder more people don't get seriously injured.

At the end of the day you take the risk and you take the consequences.

Regards,

Jon

 

Could we add corner workers and chief track stewart to the list please?

When you show up at one of these events what exactly do you know about the people running the track that day?
If it's an event you're very familiar with and you reconize all the parties involved then "maybe" your ok.

When things go wrong you'd like to be able to depend of these folks to potentially save your life and car.

How do we as participants know if they're qualified?

I found out the hard way this year when they weren't but so what's the answer? Certification or Licensing? Is that for every corner worker?

During the drivers meetings (the good ones) they go over all of the safety technicals and driver behavior but the corner workers are usually gone getting into position. It's rush rush rush because we're late for the first session.

Should the corner workers be at the meetings and introduced? Should proof of qualification be available for all the drivers to see? A tech inspection for the track crew?

At a lot of these events it's a thankless job with long hours out in the hot sun so I really appreciate what they do. They're the ones that are going to spot the problems with your car and driving that's so important.

Bob S.

 

About 9 years ago my wife was asked to volunteer as a corner worker. She had a blast but she was also out there with another experienced person. Even so, in an emergency she has no training. I'm a lot more mindful of that type of possibility now than I was then.

 

Yeah...I agree 100%. That's one reason I always go out of my way to thank a track worker when I see one and I routinely out out of my way to take a bottle of ice water to an accessable worker when I get the chance. If we keep those guys comfortable and alert we all benefit.

 

Not to take this off topic, but I think some of the safety equipment suppliers need to step up to the plate and offer instructions on how to use their equipment properly. Ever try and get "recommendations" on how to install a fire supression system? You're more or less on your own...

 

In my time instructing, I have seen some ridiculous "saftey equipment." Like harnesses that anchor to the rear seat belt latches, harnesses and harness bars being used without rollover protection, no submarine belts, etc etc - the list could go on. If a studen I'm working with has any of that, I tell them to take it out or they don't pass tech - the OEM saftey equipment is better apt than that junk.
Part of the problem is retailers of this stuff; most of them talk up "saftey" etc. but don't know what they're talking about and sell products that compromise rather than improve driver saftey.
The other part of the problem is that track days and racing are a business and while saftey is an obvious and paramount concern, you've still got to maintain "customer service" which means you allow people onto the track that really shouldn't be there but you can't discriminate nor can you pre-screen every participant, both of which create saftey hazards.
It's also a problem with participants themselves and the invasion of ego that get a lot of people into trouble; my friend attended an event at CA Speedway and got tagged the first lap of the first session by someone making a total bonehead move, attempting late brake 4 cars at once and pass another (his) at the apex of a corner and all this for the first outlap of the day, during a track way - WTF? Another problem is drivers requesting to move up too soon, or driving cars and/or buying cars, that are totally over their skill level; exceptions notwithstanding, most people can't handle an exceptional street car, much less a full blown race car but buy them anyway in hopes of "working up to it." Sorry, it doesn't work that way.
In the end, it's a razor thin compromise that keeps these events going - one that's hinged on luck.

 

I will never be fast. I drive in my rearview mirror. I saw the action coming just as I pasted your buddy on to the front straight. I let off the gas and I swear your friend looked over at me like..."why did I you do that"? Your buddy passed me back "super driver" came smoking down the middle of the front straight and the rest is history. So far I have never had to test my safety gear.

Finally, Judge is absolutely corect. Makers and sellers of safety gear are into selling it but for liability reasons will not give you but the thinest of guidelines on how to use it or install it properly. Then to make matters worse talk to raceshops who do this stuff all the time and when you get down a quiz them why they do certain things 90% of the time you get the answer "because I've been doing it that why for 20 years". That is no scientific answer! So when someone askes why I bent and welded my own rollcage I ask if they want the short answer or the doctoral thesis answer?

 

This thread will make you think twice about track days.
That's some mind set operating in this person.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?p=135252724#post135252724

Bob S.