David Piper restores the Talacrest P4

Indeed. Why is it even a discussion? Of course the Piper P4 is not a genuine Ferrari.

 

Mate, do you live under a rock?

It is a well know fact that #0900 was built with the spare (mechanical) parts that were part of the #0858 package. BTW: #0858 never went to New Zealand, McKay is an Australian not a New Zealander. The 250LM that he owned did race in New Zealand but not the Can Am car, unless he left that out of his own book that I own ... or I missed it.

Also as all these parts were spares for #0858 either engine is correct for #0858 IMO.
Pete

 

Pete
I must be missing something here. How can two engines both be right?

 

It's a racing car not a road car. When racing, cars often have many spares.

When David McKay bought #0858 from Ferrari, not only did the car arrive but also a container of spare parts. David was mightly impressed. Those spares are part of the package of #0858 that he bought and were sold on to the next owner of #0858.

You don't honestly think that any current or old/historic F1 car runs with only one engine all season do you?

Who knows which engine or anything else was in the car when it was raced during it's CanAm races and when David raced the car, etc.
Pete
ps: We must remember that the chassis is what identifies a car. This has been proven in law many times and this is why #0900's situation is complex ... the owner of #0858 owns the chassis and whatever engine he put in it, even a Chev v8, it is still Ferrari #0858, just bastardised. Now if somebody takes one of #0858's engines and sticks it in a Chev, that does not make the Chev a Ferrari let alone a P4.

 

Thanks.

 

I think if the car raced at Le Mans they stamp the engine and gearbox and record the number (I think ... don't take my word for this). Therefore if you were able to get hold of this information and had a selection of engines to choose from you could install the engine and gearbox that was used for that race.
Pete

 

Good shootin', El Wayne!!

 

Correct. That information is in the Le Mans Scrutinizing Documents which as I said I have a full copy of for 1966 and 1967. The P4/ NOT 350 Can Am engine that ran in 0858 at Le Mans in 1967 as per it's serial number stampings are noted in that document.

 

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/142963481-post6610.html

Some things you just can't make up...

 

Sorry for the mistake. I was thinking of Jim Palmer who McKay brought over from NewZealand to drive car in Australia. Your comment about 'live under a rock". As you seem to live in a green house be careful when throwing stones. Broken windows let in fresh air.Breathe some of it and you might be able to follow the logic placed before you. tongascrew

 

I am assuming the scrutinizing doccumets show matching numbers for 0858 chassis and engine.Could it be possible that these engine numbers were changed.S.F had done it before at LeMans and on new/used cars to be traded sold.Do we know the engine s/n at Brands Hatch July 30.We still don"t have a record of the engines that went into the Can Am 0858 or the two engines that went with 0858 to McKay. then to Hawkins. Finally what is the s/n of the engine in 0900 and is this the engine from 0850? Does D.P know? It would be interesting to hear what he has to say. tongascrew They

 

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/vintage-thru-365-gtc4-sponsored-vintage-driving-machines/439633-piper-p4-0900-just-what.html

 

Tongascrew, I apologise for my use of a little NZ/Australian language terms but I've told you this before . One of the best books my wife has bought me and as written by McKay (he became a journalist) I put stock in what he says ... although I'm only really interested in his 250LM.

Unfortunately the flowery language is 100% part of who I am so I'll keep using these terms whether I like it or not,but will try and step outside my green house and breathe some of that fresh air ... I hope the logic that you are placing before me is not that the rebody of #0858 was a good job. If it was this thread would have ended years ago.
Pete

 

Any word on where and how the new body was found? And what body it is?

 

So, if i collect up all the COPO Camaro parts I can find and build a COPO Camaro, it's legit, Chevrolet produced? I can get blueprints and all the specs to do so. It doesn't add up. It's still going to be a Tribute, or Replica. Only the factory can produce the original.

Perry

 

Until we have common definitions for terms like tribute, homage, continuation etc there can be no resolution. Original though should be a term we all understand.

 

Seems like an apples and oranges comparison. It's a bit different when the parts and blueprints were supplied by Ferrari and the construction was (reportedly) endorsed by the factory.

 

Maybe, but it's still not made wholley by the factory, and out of collected, albeit original parts. I could get all the correct date coded parts, and voila, a correct COPO Camaro. Even back in the day, it wouldn't be the same car as a factory built original COPO. Seems the same, just need the Okey dokey from the factory. Seems that if you want to control your brand, you wouldn't grant that kind of permission. Otherwise, everyone and their brother could do it.

Perry

 

The difference is that David Piper's P4 was allegedly given the okey dokey by Enzo Ferrari himself and allocated the 0900 Ferrrari factory chassis number.

 

Well put.Whome ever "perry" is needs to spend some time getting to know who Enzo Ferrari really was. how he did business, what was really important, or not, to him.He marched to his very own drummer.Also times were very different back then. Only when understanding this will"perry" and others understand that the deal with David Piper should come as no real surprise. tongascrew

 

No. you aren't missing anything. Technically there is only one engine block that is correct for 0858 but don't be surprised if it is not anywhere near original. tongascrew

 

Nobody would understand how the old man operated better than the company he founded and nobody would understand how the company operated back then better than the company itself.

The company gave 0900 to another chassis whilst Enzo was very much alive and involved. Given that, what sort of reception do you think the company would give Piper's 0900 if Piper or a future owner wanted to classiche it?

 

Hi,I am pleased that your flowery language is just that. May I refer you to several previous posts by me where I express reservations about parts of the body work which could easily be corrected. tongascrew