David Piper restores the Talacrest P4

Steve (miurasv),

I fear Jim's gripe in this thread is how this car (the Talacrest car) could affect the value of the car carrying chassis # 0846.

Paul

 

0846 is for sale?

 

I'm sure it will be at some point...

Paul

 

And Jim wants to be sure he recoups some of the money he put into it?

 

??

The value of 0858 has no effect on me or 0846 what so ever. 0846 is probably the most disclosed car in the world and as it's not nor will ever be for sale during my life why should I care what it may or may not be worth?

The less it's worth will be a benefit to those who inherit it but in the scheme of their financial reality it's worth or lack thereof is totally meaningless.

 

Value was perhaps the wrong word.
Perception may have been better. 0846 being rebuilt out of something, 0858 being rebuilt in to something...

Paul

 

You're sure?

I'm sure your statement shows a reckless disregard for the truth.

You publicly, in writing standing by your statement?

 

My statement of what? That it will be for sale at some point?

I am sure that at some point in time the car carrying the chassis # 0846 will come up for sale.

Paul

 

and your reckless disregard for the truth is based on what facts or knowledge?

"I am sure that at some point in time the car carrying the chassis # 0846 will come up for sale."

 

Jim,

I am lost, are you saying that the car carrying chassis # 0846 will never come up for sale even after we have all long expired this mortal coil?
Or are you perhaps looking too deeply in to my earlier posts?

Paul

 

P.U.

Somebody either;

stepped on a massive load & tracked it in the house . . .

or

is full of it

or

a lot of both.

Either way, it's stinkin' up the joint.

P.U.


via rubber ducky

 

We are talking about cars so rare here that one more does not really alter the perception of any car. #0858 will always be the ex CanAm car and #0846 will always be the only P3/4.

While I am many millions below the financial means of owning a car even close to this important in the historic world, if I was fortunate to have the financial means I do think it is important that the right technologies are used in their restoration. It's like somebody touching up the Mona Lisa with a spray can instead of a paint brush because the spray can gets a better finish ...

But in this case the end result should be identical but as I said we are talking about very important cars, not just another 105 Alfa restoration where there were thousands built ... so subtle differences matter and my God this car will be judged like no other! In fact you would have to have the biggest set to take on this job.

BTW: as Pipers car was built by Pipers team and then given a chassis number it is possible the bodywork is not a perfect reference for a genuine car ... maybe?

It will be funny if this car is now sold and then somebody is commissioned to put the original Can Am body back on ... lol.
Pete

 

The body sections on Piper's green car were originally on 0860 and still have the s/n on the inside; Piper kept them along with all the P4 spares when 0860 passed through his hands after Paul Hawkins died, so had everything except a chassis to assemble his car, and got a set of the original drawings from Enzo with permission to make one chassis with the official 'continuation' number 0900.

Ironically when Bardinon had 0860 restored (?) (!) from Can-Am to spyder, Piper supplied him with the body parts (made by Allegretti), but didn't let him have the originals back.

Regarding the Talacrest work on 0858; I mised the blindingly obvious (not for the first time)when talking about the inaccuracies, and assumed the ally piece at the top of the side window was temporary. I was thinking we were talking about the little extension piece on the rear of the windscreen into which the window slots when the door is closed........doh!!!

The line of the top edge of the side window is definitely wrong at the moment, BTW....

Paul M

 

So... at what point will the moderators move this thread to the 'Recreations & Non-Period Rebodies' forum?

>8^)
ER

 

The computer guys call it "Garbage in Garbage Out". Over the years Piper has made and commissioned a number of replica bodies. As my friend Macca points out he still has 0860's original body but as with many things Piper the shape of that body has morphed over time. There is also a totally original 412P body (0850's) existant in Modena that could have been used.

Look at these replica bodies. One was mounted to the tail of 0854 when I bought her. Go through that thread and the 0846 thread. Note how squished the roll hoop is on the replica tail that was mounted on 0854 when we bought her. Look at 0858's original tail that we've now mounted to 0846. Look at 0854's original coupe tail which we've now remounted to 0854. Look at the properly pounded P4 Allegretti coupe body that we originally mounted to 0846 and is now hanging on our shop wall and compare it to Pipers replica body that is also hanging on our shop wall. Also compare Piper's replica bodies to original photo's such as the one I posted here.

There are two separate issues here. The desecration of an original unique historical object that there are now no longer any original examples of and the second is quality or lack thereof of this desecration.

GIGO.

My friend Erik is quite right. This thread should be moved to the: " 'Recreations & Non-Period Rebodies' forum".
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Having read most of this thread and taking a simple overview of everyone's comments, and knowing of the characters involved it is quite simple.

IMHO money is clearly the driving factor and everything else is very much secondary in this project. A pity.

 

No reason that he shouldn't be doing business and there's nothing sacred being violated. He just shouldn't be misrepresenting his goods.

 

Agreed

 

This photo is simply mind blowing. These magnificent creations had a purpose. That purpose was to win.

It's simply outrageous that they were so achingly beautiful as a sideline.

It was truly a "freak of nature" in time. Mid 50's up to the late 60's. Oh and the 20's/30's. The reason Jim you will never sell these machines is because of the shear pleasure you derive from everything about them.

They have it all. Above all their attributes is that utterly brutal styling. On that basis I cannot and will not criticise why this Can Am is being rebodied.

I would however hand Ferrari a blank cheque and ask them to let me know when the job's done.
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Posted today. More pictures of the progress.
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The videos and pictures of the progress looks like full and honest disclosure to me.

 

Ease off on the hyper-Americanised sue-you stuff, it leaves a bad taste in the readers' mouths.

 

The thing i found more difficult to accept is way Ferrari themselves have allowed the destruction of theyr history..hell, why couldn´t they buy the car, and put it on display?

 

From Talacrest's Facebook Page posted today. Very interesting. Classiche Race history including confirmation from Ferrari that #0858 was the Stewart/Amon 330 P4 that came second at the 1967 BOAC race at Brands Hatch to clinch the championship.
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I am by no means a fan of Classiche, but I seem to recall that Ferrari had expressed to Jim Glickenhaus, when he was at the auction and bidding on this car, that Ferrari would not allow/authorize Classiche to restore the car to anything other than its Can-Am configuration. I think Classiche had it right that time. Mr. G can confirm whether I remember this correctly or not.