David Piper restores the Talacrest P4

A P4 blows a GTO out the water.

Looks are everything and the former is X rated. Drogo knew his trade. I could not give a monkeys if some sniffy old bint demands her old man retains a GTO for certain cliquey events.

Bore off. Been to Monaco recently? The classic grand prix was about as much fun as mashing lumpy potatoes.

A carb'd 412P is like a D type to the C type.

That's not to say that a Blower Bentley is not equally fantastic but usable.

P4 for me. Period.

NB - I'm fully aware $40M of S1 GTO is obscene/revered/iconic/usable blah blah blah but the P4 is THE ultimate Ferrari.

I'm hardcore so will always avoid the path of least resistance...

 

Has anyone thrown out a guesstimate of how much it would cost to bring 0858 back to Can Am?

 

There are two separate issues here.

Welding back the hacked off chassis pieces, removing the Piperised replica P4 bits and remounting the body wouldn't be a big deal assuming they don't do something silly to the original 350 Can Am engine.

Doing a complete proper restoration? Look over the 0846 and 0854 threads and estimate from there.

 

I guess I'm going a bit hypothetical with this.

I get that this would be a stupid way of going about it but, yes, I was wondering is there a lets have fun guess at how much just to get it back to the way it was before P$/4 transformation.

I hear the proper restoration, but for this question I'm looking at it as a prior issue. Just wondering what it'll take to get her into restorable can am shape.

I'd hope the story ends where the car is bought eventually by someone that wants to return it to Can Am. As long as the body is around...

 

I think it is more likely that the body ends up on a replica chassis and like some 250LM's we now have 2 cars that have parts from what was originally one. All okay when both cars owned by the same person but if not the fog rolls in ...

Remember a person involved has the drawings and many parts ...
Pete

 

Regretfully I realize this also.

It's a funny case because it was originally a P4. So making it a P4 isn't soooo far off base. I think the flaw in that though is, as a Can Am, it has most of the original parts of a car that it once was in period. Not only is it the last of it's kind, it's now half the car it could be instead of a car that actually was.

Ship of Theseus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think that when you're playing at this level of rarity you have to respect preserving as much of the actual car that made it through time as is possible.

 

But aren't you ignoring the fact that it was originally built as a P4? If it was originally built as a 350 Can Am, then your analysis would be correct. However, since it was originally built as a P4, it is really no different than, for example, the pontoon 250TR that was rebodied in the 60s as a GTO lookalike and was subsequently "put back" to its original configuration with a repro pontoon body. Would anyone argue that it is not better for a 250TR chassis that was originally built with a pontoon body to have a pontoon body, rather than some subsequent rebody?

 

Having Ferrari Classiche or others in Modena replicating a P4 body using the proper techniques, casting a replica P4 block, etc., etc, is totally different than what some here have refered to as this: "Abortion".

 

I understand your point fully, especially about the chassis deserving its original shape body. However, being objective the difference between the converted Pontoon 250 TR to lookalike 250 GTO and the conversion from 330 P4 to 350 Can Am is that the latter was done by the factory, so the 250 TR did not really become a 250 GTO whereas that 330 P4 did become a factory 350 Can Am Car, even though it remained largely P4 underneath. Which Pontoon 250 TR was converted to a GTO lookalike?

 

David, to the contrary, although we have here a unique item, I believe that the market for this car is ultra-efficient, if I may use such a term. Virtually every interested and financially capable buyer in the world is aware of the car and its availability. At least equally important, each of those potential buyers has had ample time to apply to the facts of its 'restoration'/'reconstruction/ his or her own evaluation OF ITS WORTH TO THAT BUYER. I can scarcely recall or even imagine any object of value in international commerce as to which the market was remotely as efficient.

 

Totally True and the long time that Piperised 0858 has remained unsold at it's asking price of 25MM USD speaks for the efficiency of the market for this car.

 

0738TR
Prior to that it had been modified to look like a TR59 and then modified again to look like a GTO.

 

As I like to say - parry and riposte!

 

Thanks. Some good info in post 3 in the link below. Apparently converted and raced in period. Barchetta says it was converted to a 250 GT Berlinetta. Any pics of it in GTO form?

Post 3 here: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/vintage-thru-365-gtc4-sponsored-redline-restorations/293600-1958-ferrari-250-%91pontoon-fender%92-testa-rossa-serial-number-0738-tr.html

 

I was speaking to a senior person today, totally unconnected to the project, who has spent most of his working life with Ferrari in the UK who said that the person carrying out the restoration of 0858 to P4 configuration is extremely competent and there should be no issue with the end result.

 

I have been informed by Ferrari Classiche today that 0858 cannot be elegible for the Attestation of car of Historic Interest (white book) as P4 because the engine 350 Can-Am was never used on the P4 and moreover the committee had decided not to authorize any modification as P4 in order to preserve the only remaining example of the 350 Can-Am.

 

Thanks for your coments. A thread like this one is really fascinating and is what F Chat is all about. Your "can of worms" is cetainly true. It also takes worms to catch fish but there is no way to predict what kind of fish is on the hook. Despite our diferences I respect Jim's dedication to the cause. However I think you would get a different opinion from David Piper who's legend with the P cars goes back to the mid 1960s. I can remember reading about him in Autosport magazines as far back as the late 1950s. It would be most interesting to hear his comments on this subject. Maybe someone in the UK could pesuade him to join in. tongascrew

 

I have been informed by Ferrari Classiche today that the gearbox 603 R No. 8 fitted on the car is the one used also for P4 configuration.

 

The end result is a bitsa car with an english body! No issue????? How often did I tell you it is wrong. Those panelbeaters do not have the italian skills to fabricate a correct hammered body with correct sheetmetal. IMHO this car is worth only a few pennies more then 0846! A fine ex works Ferrari 350 Can Am is no more. Why would somebody be so stupid to rebody a unique original car into a bitsa / replica p4. Would you rebody the breadvan or even an LM GTE into the street car it left the factory?

 

I LIKE

 

Between the fact that the certification was never really going to be possible (some of us knew awhile ago) and the fact the real money(real offers) on this car is so far below what they're asking, this is all going to end in tears. This whole thing has been bungled from the start, and it's a public farce. I don't where they got the idea that this would work out at their number.

 

True.

True.

True.

Me neither.

 

I take your point.

I was thinking of the predictive aspect more than anything else.

 

The scenario could arise where the car's market is such that it'll be worthwhile for an enthusiast to purchase the Piper and convert it back to Can Am. The buyer could possibly sell the P4 body to some guy that was out having too much fun in his Norwood.

 

Dream on. Next owner commisioning another P4 replica body by the Italian panel beaters is a more likely option. Car will never be returned to CanAm style, neither will 0860.