David Piper restores the Talacrest P4

If they are building pretty much the entire body in england the car loses a certain degree of charm and appeal in my opinion. Especially if they use the methods they are using here.

This is the case with this Can Am/P4. Its not a Ferrari body and to add insult to injury its being made incorrectly.

 

It is not just pathetic, it is a travesty. No one who does this has a respect for history. They are only, only, only chasing money. That is worse than pathetic, when all of these players are probably more wealthy than you or I will ever be.

George

 

What does England have to do with anything?

Ferrari bodies were not made on English Wheels. They were hand formed in a totally different way. That is fact. A replica body made by historically incorrect methods isn't even a correct replica body.

I have great respect for a lot of work done in England. This replicafication isn't one I have any respect for the craftsmanship of. The Auto Union made in England and the DK restoration of the first Ferrari I ever drove, Andy Warhol's old car were superb (even if a bit "Pebble Beach" for my taste ). Paul Barber does great work. I could go on and on but DP's work on 0858 doesn't impress me.

 

Once again Totally Not True. I had a very specific conversation with Ferrari about 0858 before I bid on 0858 at the Factory Auction and they very clearly stated that 0858 was a 350 Can Am and if Ferrari or anyone chopped the original 350 Can Am Chassis and fit a replica P4 body Ferrari would NOT consider 0858 to magically be a P4 and would from then on consider 0858 a "Ferrari of Historical Interest" as they consider The Breadvan to be.

 

There was a 7.0L Can Am Ferrari, IIRC?

 

"Originally Posted by miurasv
If 0858 wasn't born a P4 I would agree with you. It could be argued that the Can Am configuration was the "rebody", even if done by the factory, and the current project is taking the car back to original form. Yes, it is a shame that we no longer have a Can Am car. If people feel so strongly about this perhaps somebody could commission Classiche or Mr Piper to build a Can Am car around the body and Can Am bits not used in in the reversion of P4 0858? Is the Can Am body and the other Can Am parts being sold with the car?"

Commission Classiche to Build a Replica 350 Can Am?

That is not LOL.

That is ROTFLMAO.

 

amen!

 

Yes, c/n 1010 712 Can Am. Previously a 512S

Details here: http://www.barchetta.cc/english/all.ferraris/detail/1010.712canam.htm

 

During your specific talks with Ferrari did you ask them if they would restore 0858 to P4 configuration? Did they of their own accord during these talks state that they would not restore 0858 to P4 configuration under any circumstances, regardless of how they may certificate it? Would an exact P4 body made by Ferrari, Classiche or a body manufacturer commissioned by Ferrari be considered by Ferrari to be a replica?

 

Asked and answered.

"they (FERRARI) very clearly stated that 0858 was a 350 Can Am (PERIOD) and if FERRARI or anyone (DP for example) chopped the (0858's) original 350 Can Am Chassis and fit a REPLICA P4 body (TODAY as opposed to what Ferrari did in Period even a correctly made Replica P4 Body made by Ferrari Classiche's Suppliers under Ferrari Classiche's direction and supervision) Ferrari would NOT consider 0858 to magically be a (an Original) P4 and would from then on consider 0858 a (Only as a) "Ferrari of Historical Interest" as they consider The Breadvan to be. (NOT AN ORIGINAL P4)"

 

Many GTOs and SWB have complete repro english wheel bodies
In UK they don't often use Eckold or Italian equivalent or even Maglios like Italians did.
C en D types are correct when rolled. They even restore AM Zagatos (1 VEV for example) with an english wheel!???
Why????

 

Thanks for your reply, Jim but you've only answered the 3rd of my 3 questions.

 

Not True.

My answer very clearly answers all three of your questions.

So there is NO misunderstanding what so ever Ferrari very clearly said to me said that even if Ferrari Classiche chopped off a section of 0858's Can AM chassis and fit it with a replica P4 Body and built a new Classiche P4 engine which for about 2MM euros they would be happy to do Ferrari would NOT Classiche this desecration (my word not theirs) as a P4 and based on that conversation BEFORE 0858 crossed the block I bid accordingly.

 

I just wanted it to be clear whether or not they were prepared to do the job. Thank you for the clarification, Jim.

 

Yes and as they (Ferrari Classiche) were, IMHO anyone who wished to perform this desecration (again my word) would be totally out of their mind to have anyone but Ferrari Classiche do this replicafaction from a value point of view.

Owning 0858 as a Ferrari Classiche'd "modified" P4 Replica/"Ferrari of Historical Interest" is one thing.

Owning a DP/JC, incorrectly produced (English Wheel) Replica P4 bodied, original chassis section chopped off to fit that replica body no longer original 350 Can Am remains IMHO a VERY different matter and something worth A LOT less then the former.

That's what I think.

Shoot me...

 

Note 247 not 237.

0858's spare 350 Can Am Engine wound up in DP's P4 Replica "0900".

As an aside Ferrari stamped and sold a 312PB to LC with the chassis # 0900.
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As far as you know, is the only difference between the Tipo 237 and Tipo 247 motors simply a 2mm increase in piston bore (i.e.from 77mm to 79mm)?

 

One potential buyer told me that Ferrari wouldn't confirm to him that the engine in 0858 today was ever run in P4 0858 as opposed to only run in 350 Can Am 0858. He based his offer to JC on that which JC rejected.

The exact differences 237/247 involve a lot of research.

This is a good place to start.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/maranello-literature/6155487210/

 

That's fair enough. Thanks for sharing your due diligence prior to auction.

Can I please ask, had you 'won' on that day, what were your plans for 0858?

 

Jim

what car is this stamping from??

 

"0900" David's P4 replica which has a 350 Can Am engine. (Originally spare to 350 Can Am 0858 or maybe 0860?)

I also believe 0860 has a 350 Can Am engine as well.

 

Jim its rare that i dont agree with your opinions, but come on really.
who cares what Ferrari think - after all if we are to agree with Ferrari then your own #0846 is actually a pile of old scrap and isnt a Ferrari anymore.

the bottom line is once a car enters private ownership then Ferrari have no right either morally or legally to tell anyone what can or cant be done to it.

if the rear half of the chassis had rusted away no one would have an issue with it being replaced, is it really that different to remove later modifications and replaced with original spec parts ?

now i do agree that the body should be made correctly but if it were again i see no harm.

plenty of cars are restored to a "point in time"
whats different with this one ?


one other question - why cant the engine be returned to original spec ?
couldnt liners be fitted to restore the correct bore size etc etc

 

To fully restore it as a 350 Can Am, cut in the headlights it once had when raced in Australia so it would be road legal and drive it.
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While I don't care what Ferrari thinks I do realise that what Ferrari thinks does matter value wise to many. (Classiche)

If the new owner is happy with this DP job. KEWL.

Once again I'd study 237 vs 247 very carefully.

0846 is a lot different. It was what it was and I did the best I could with what is was.

0858 (Before DP's latest Job) was a very original 350 Cam Am. The last 350 Can Am in existence.

I wouldn't have hacked that up.