i'm afraid that $1700 for a pair of stainless steel tubes is basically no less insane than $2500 for a pair of stainless steel tubes can someone please explain what exactly these straight pipes are that they warrant this sort of price point? i mean is there some "can" involved along the pipe's length that involved some interesting engineering? i assume there's something more to this other than "just a pipe". doody.
Doody Having had a look through these posts, there seem to be too many combinations being considered to make a rational choice. To my mind there is no substitute for hearing these things with your own ears; sound files can be a bit misleading. What people call 'nice' seems to be quite an individual thing too. On my 456 I was more concerned with tonal quality than with sheer volume, and my benchmark is the 355; the closer the sound is to this, the happier I am. I don't care dick whether anyone else thinks this is sane or appropriate- it's what I want. You may want something different from this. The biggest effect on tonal quality seems to be the rear mufflers- I've heard Koenig (nee Fuchs), Tubi, Hamann and pipe only versions of the 550. Changing the crossover (Y) piece seems to layer on top of what's already there, alters the resonance and I think increases the volume quite significantly. If it were me, I'd focus in on the muffler and then go for the Y piece to modulate that, as a second decision. I'm told that the Koenig, Fuchs & Cargraphic are all the same thing, so the choice crystallises into: Tubi versus Koenig etc versus pipe only. I believe it's the Tubi that has the cabin resonance issue and I'm not aware of there being too much if any resonance with the other options (not in the cars I've been in anyway). Personally, I find the Tubi nice for about 5 minutes, then I've had enough of it. It's too much. The only system I've heard that makes me consider junking the Koenigs on my car is the Hamann muffler replacement. I like that one, but not enough to drop ca. $2000 on it. Of course, if someone comes out with a system that makes my car sound like F1 car @ 18,000rpm, the Koenig is toast! Kevin
Guess the non-sensical pricing is just something we should be accustomed to ... I tend to get frustrated by the idea that I should get milked with a complacent smile because I own these cars. The straight tubes are on the TubiUSA site: PN 01069661000 Only Tube Silencer for 550 Maranello/Barchetta (Set) They exist for the 575 too. No pic. Tried to ask a question via email but their site crashes my browser.
Doody: Straight pipes are just pipes that go all the way out. No cans, no mufflers, no anything to muffle the sound. It is basically the equivelant of running open headers back in the "hot rod" days. The price is high but when you look comparatively at what is offered, it is within the ballpark. On a side note, if you are interested in the Hamann setup, let me know. I am one of the authorized Hamann dealers for Boston region. I can get you more info and pricing if wanted.
Doody, as you know, I currently run the Cargraphic cans, and love them. However, I am very seriously considering adding the Stebro X-pipe to replace the center resonator. It is clamp-on, I believe (no cutting & welding). My friend SW, who turned me on to the Cargraphics in the first place, has the Stebro, and MAN, does the car sound SNARLY!!!!!!!!
fyi and for the record, the stock 550 Maranello exhaust cans weigh-in at 33 pounds each. i just put 'em away. i unfortunately did not have the foresight to weight the tubi cans before they were put back on, but i'd guess that the box that held them weighed roughly what one of these stock cans weighs. so perhaps 20 pounds each and probably less. doody.
Dave; I am very much making the same consideration as you. Very curious to hear your impressions of SW's car on the inside. One thing I love about CG is how quiet it in until you roll the windows down. Good even-balanced blend of engine/exhaust with the windows up, and you know how I feel about it down. --Dan
Dan, you're right. With the windows up, the sound is very nearly as quiet as stock. It's a little different outside the car, however...or so I am told! I must admit that I have not been in SW's car with the windows up, however. He says it is about the same, though..
Doody, Just remembered I had a set of the Tubi Straight pipes sitting in a closet that I never put on my 550. Tubi part 01069611010 labeled Test Pipes Set 550 Maranello. Brand new still wrapped, never installed, got them a week before my F40 - can't afford to lose my hearing so I never installed them (F40=eventual hearing aid). If you want them send me a email I'm happy to take a beating for a fellow fanatic....Otherwise its off to auction they go. Jon
Hello Everyone: This is my first post. I hope you find the following info useful. Researched FerrariChat before I got Tubi's tube-only setup. It's basically a dog legged tube that splits into the 2 tips. Originally I was going to buy the Tubi with can version, but Manu from UK recommended this setup to me instead. Skeptical at first, thought it might be too loud, but Manu offered to exchange to Tubi with can if I didn't like the tube only version. He said he will even cover the postage. So with nothing to lose, I went along with his recommendation. Tube only Tubis weighed only 5.5 kg per pair (12.1 lbs), where as the OEM cans weighed 31.4 kg per pair (69.1 lbs). IMHO 57 lbs weight reduction is already worth the money. Sound wise, I did not experience any resonence. Manu explained that no cans equal no resonence. At idle, sound is a very nice throaty growl befitting a V12. Up to say about 2,000 rpm the same throaty growl but a bit louder. Not too intrusive. Strangely enough, above 2,000 rpm the sound does not get much louder as you would expect. Instead it seems rather muted as the rpm climbs. Manu's explanation is that the large OEM center-can effectively cuts the high rpm sound level. I am glad I went with Manu's advice. No more sewing machine sounds, no resonance, and not too loud. Now with better sound feedback, I find I can match engine revs better during shifts, especially heel and toe down shifts. Did not notice any loss of torque at low rev, but the 550's engine has so much torque to start with it's not easy to notice it unless maybe put on a dyno. Anyways, I am quite happy with the Tubi tube only set up and I hope my comments are of interest to others in this forum. Probably would have been disappointed if I had bought the Tubi with cans.
FYI. These $ are stupid. I've had perfect systems made for my cars including headers, pipes, with internal mufflers that you can't see, in SS, and coated with cermic race coatings for 4K. This included engineering, and testing. The Marine bronze, mufflers I've hidden in my P4 exhaust cost much less than these Tubi cans. These were hand built, and includes designing them on a dyno.
Last I looked a P4 was a Ferrari. I've made an entire system for my Lola, Mufflers for my MK-IV, mufflers for my P4 and a muffler for my Duesey.
Tez: a) no clips. Someone's gotta do that....I think Norm and I will do it soon. b) no email? send to [email protected] ... what's going on with you lately? Long time... you gonna be in the area at all? I'll be back to HK in the new year... --Dan
I guess I should have added a smiley. I agree with you completely. I am always amazed at how low the bang/buck ratio is for aftermarket stuff for Ferrari. An exhaust system does not know or care what brand of engine it is connected to. Costs of fabrication should all be similar. But Ferrari prices are 5x. Why gouge Ferrari owners? Like Willy Sutton said "Thats where the money is" Erich
Do you happen to know the exact Tubi PN for your tube-only set, and would you indicate how much you paid for the pair ?
I found a product no 01069661000 on the (buggy) tubistyle.it website, but no pic ... Same thing on the tubistyleusa.com, reference is there but no pic, no pricing either ... Is that what we're talking about ? The Tubi cans are product no 01069311000.
ze_shark: Paid £1040, which included postage to send from UK to Hong Kong. Don't remember the part number. Tubi's web site does not show a picture of the tube-only version. The picture Tubi show's on it's web site is the one with the silencer cans. Just ask Manu at scuderiasystems.com and he can help you. In fact I think he is a member at this board. Manu was very helpful to me. His price is also much cheaper than what I was able to find elsewhere. Delivery time was only about 2 weeks. Much faster than anyone else who quoted me. Good luck.
With the prices being thrown around has anyone considered have an exhaust fabricated? I wish I had done that on my 996TT.
Well, here's some more data for this thread: Last evening, I helped Mark M. install the Stebro X-pipe featured on the first post of this thread on his 1997 550 Maranello. He already had the CarGraphic mufflers, as I do. We then went for a drive. Lemme tell you, MAMA MIA !!! What a difference!!! The whole character of the car is different! Same sound at idle (a big plus), but on revs, the car REALLY snarls...and wound out, it sounds just like an old 275 or Daytona. And pops & spits when you lift off to shift!!! And from outside the car, it sounds just like a GTO screaming down the Mulsanne straight!! And yet, with the windows up, the car is no louder than before. Unreal!! Now I need to get one.....
Yeah, Dave hit it on the head, but to reiterate, the Stebro center resonator rips! In terms of $/tonal quality it cannot be beaten. While the Cargraphics have a great rumble at idle, and are never offensive, I was never satisfied with the sound at higher rpm. Evidently the tone at higher rpm is very much determined by the center resonator. As Dave said, it is no louder at idle, or cruising with the windows up, but with the windows down and the throttle open it is the most beautiful thing you have ever heard. Until Dave's arrives, I'll have my wife drive around, just so I can follow along and listen. Mark McKenzie
Anyone know what factors go into determining exhaust sound? It cant be that a Mercedes V12 would sound like a ferrari one by merging a tubi onto it! Is it based on bore and stroke? How could you hear that? intake plumbing would be more "engine sound"...
I think that engine acoustics is an art. There a several design-related factors affecting the intake and exhaust note (number of cylinders, firing order, etc ...) and lots of others which must be a savvy combination of performance & "acousmetics".
A contribution from Manu at Scuderiasystems: There are actually three types of exhaust from Tubi Style for the Ferrari 550. 1. Old-model Tubi Style Mufflers 2. New-model Tubi Style Mufflers 3. Tubi Style only-tube exhaust. Out of these exhausts, the only one to have a potential resonance problem was the old-model [Tubi] muffler system - now discontinued. After customer feedback, Tubi Style changed the design of the exhaust and there is now NO resonance problem on ANY new Tubi Exhaust for the 550 Having said that, after plenty of experimentation we [Scuderiasystems] have found that the only-tube exhaust actually provides a superior result to both models. The crucial difference is that the only-tube exhaust produces a better 'note' at high rpm than the other models. As a result of the huge central OE muffler on the 550, ANY conventional rear muffler system tends to fade out at high rpm. The only-tube system does not. Even more importantly there is absolutely no resonance at any rpm - there can't be - the only-tube system has no muffler -there is nothing to bottleneck exhaust flow and thereby create annoying sonic resonances at low rpm whilst also being perforated within the pipes themselves to eliminate any excessive bass that could result. The exact sonic result depends on the level of wear on the customers catalytic converters and central muffler but after selling literally hundreds of these models we have NEVER had a return or any complaints of resonance. There is a lovely V12 thrum at idle which develops into a mellow bark at high rpm. At no point does the exhaust develop excessive volume. There are other issues - the immense weight loss from removing the rubbish OE rear mufflers, the new system looks better in the rear valence and a marginal power increase at the top end. ****************** Intersting, isn't it ? I am tempted to order straight pipes, but two things are still holding me up: - how difficult is it to install ? Any hints/advice ? - have to figure out if my 1y Ferrari warranty would be voided by such mods If I proceed with the mod, I'll certainly get before/after dyno charts (and dyno the 355 too for reference )
