Diablo buyers guide | FerrariChat

Diablo buyers guide

Discussion in 'LamborghiniChat.com' started by licodix, Jan 5, 2015.

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  1. licodix

    licodix Formula Junior

    Feb 7, 2009
    334
    Central
    Full Name:
    Barchetta Mad Max
    I can not believe it: no link to a buyer's guide on Diablo?
     
  2. Downdraft1

    Downdraft1 Formula Junior

    Nov 13, 2008
    787
    My personal Diablo buyer's guide would be:

    1. GT and Jota
    2. 6.0 SE and SE30
    3. 6.0 and 99 SV
    4. pre 99 SV and Roadsters
    5. VT
    6. 91-94 2WD

    The first four of the list are all numbered examples those will have the price spike one day - my predition is 2020. I would not be surprised these first four command prices that are triple to those of the bottom rankings.
     
  3. EMILIO

    EMILIO F1 Veteran

    Feb 23, 2006
    6,853
    Italia
    #3 EMILIO, Jan 5, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2015
    i tend to think the rare cars will be worth a lot
    like SE30 and GT (even more the Jota)
    also 6.0, SV and roadster are nice cars that will be worth good money one day

    what i do not see in the future is the VT being worth more than the 2wd diablo.
    why? becuase the 2wd has the raw feel...and it got a bit lost with time
    driving an early car compared to a VT or later model, the old diablo is very much like an updated 90's countach: no Power steering, lighter and more "wild" compared to later cars.

    It is also no mistery the diablo 2wd are some of the quickest cars, i met some people that owned or dealt in diablos in the 90's, even heard it from a guy that drove basically all models
    they told me the early cars are the quickest beside GT and Jotas...even the 6.0 has more power but quite a big weight disadvantage
    it is true they have poor braking, some faults and so and so finish but i do not think it will be so important for the value when it will be 30 years old

    i think the 2wd cars will be more expensive than VT mainly because more raw and old school.

    do not get me wrong: VT is still a nice car.

    there are no bad diablos in the end...all are nice looking and there is not a single ugly model from 90 to 2001 ...get one for reasonable money and you won't regret it
    it is nice to drive, fast and awesome to look at.
    the fact you won't likely lose money with one is an added bonus
     
  4. EMILIO

    EMILIO F1 Veteran

    Feb 23, 2006
    6,853
    Italia
    #4 EMILIO, Jan 5, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2015
    when buyng a diablo i would check this first:

    - no serious accident history
    - good pull from the engine, smooth engine when warm with no smoke, etc.. (better a car with 50.000 Kms and good engine than a 10.000 Km car with a "weak engine")
    - check clutch is not slipping selecting a hi gear and pushing the throttle from low rpm
    - gearbox MUST worck well when warm...if it is difficult to select a gear indicates you need a gearbox overhaul or at very least a new clutch
    - check for serious leacks from engine and differential (a very small leak could be acceptable...it is a 20 years old lamborghini ,but remember the diablo is much less prone to leack than a countach...so it should not leack)
    - no noises from differential (one of diablo's weack point)
    - no leaks from the front shocks on later cars
    - interior holds pretty well on diablos. so a tyred interior is very much a sign of a neglected car (a little wear on driver's seat is normal though with cars with 20.000 miles and up)
    - i would check all books and tools comes with the car

    early cars catalitic converters are prone to fail with catastrofic results: if the car has still the original cats change them for test pipes (even the later models would benefit from this mod)

    given there are still some diablos in the market i would avoid cars repainted in not original colors and with too many owners.
    i would also avoid cars modified or updated to a later different model, unless they come with a lower price...do not get me wrong: anyone can do whatever he likes on his own car...but when it is time to purchase one, keep in mind these are going to be collector cars soon...and so every single mod to the look is $ to detract as for its value. i do not believe a GT kit on a 6.0 adds value as a SV look on a VT car...
    the only mods that are good to me are sport exhausts or VT removal (if all original parts come with the car!)
     
  5. 2aftercannonball

    2aftercannonball Formula Junior

    Sep 23, 2006
    459
    Agree 100% Emilio!
     
  6. licodix

    licodix Formula Junior

    Feb 7, 2009
    334
    Central
    Full Name:
    Barchetta Mad Max
    Applause!

    The most striking argument is: it is one of the last wild cars!

    I remember a meeting with Valentina Balboni some ten years ago during a demonstration lap in the then breand new Murcielago, when I asked him which is the Diablo he desired most? He said: it is the early rear wheel drive car. In his fantastic accent he said: "You know 4 WD has many advantages, but for real men rear wheel drive is the best." So easy.

    And I think he confirmed that the early cars were not too heavy indeed and Lamborghini staff, then with Chrysler money, wanted the Diablo to be the quickest production car in the world in reality - so engines then surely did not suffer from "low power".
     
  7. licodix

    licodix Formula Junior

    Feb 7, 2009
    334
    Central
    Full Name:
    Barchetta Mad Max
    It is a quite interesting selection, I would see it a bit different though. The Diablo IMHO will become a collector's car very soon, in fact it is just now becoming one. Who has not noticed that all these "advertised forever" Diablos seem to be gone?
    Ranking should be a bid modified:
    Jota - SE30 - GT - GTR - SV-R - early 2WD/ pre 99SV - 6.0SE - 99SV - Roadster - VT Roadster - 6.0 - VT
     
  8. EMILIO

    EMILIO F1 Veteran

    Feb 23, 2006
    6,853
    Italia
    the biggest issue of early 2wd as a collector car is ...production numbers
    they built not few of them... well not few talking in lamborghini numbers!
     
  9. One problem of the early cars is the timing chain adjusters. Many have been updated by now. Another problem is the internal driveshaft breaking.
     
  10. EMILIO

    EMILIO F1 Veteran

    Feb 23, 2006
    6,853
    Italia
    Both issues solved somewhat in 93 with late 2wd Diablos,these cars have double chains like vt.
     
  11. BULL RUN

    BULL RUN Formula 3

    Dec 18, 2004
    1,684
    Good write up Emilio. I agree completely.
     
  12. 2aftercannonball

    2aftercannonball Formula Junior

    Sep 23, 2006
    459
    #12 2aftercannonball, Jan 5, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I agree about the tensioners, one broke in mine. A weekend repair, once all the parts were secured. One good thing if it breaks, the broken parts are contained in the tensioner and not lost in the engine to do more damage. The driveshaft is not a common problem! I do believe when driven to extremes, high revs and sidestepping the clutch can break things.

    Early Diablos are the biggest bang for the buck! Good unmolested examples are getting hard to find. WHATEVER the values do, I'll never regret owning mine!!! It will be the last Lamborghini I'll own, but I'm definitely going out with a smile.
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  13. Olivier NAMECHE

    Olivier NAMECHE F1 Veteran

    Aug 18, 2007
    5,079
    CANADA
    Full Name:
    Olivier
    Good explanation Emiio.

    I will classify another way :

    1. Jota & GTR
    2. GT & SE30
    3. early model '91 & '92
    4. 6.0 SE and '99 SV
    5. pre '99 SV and Roadsters
    6. '93 and all VT & 2WD


    what about pricing ?

    in Europe, you can find early Diablo at 70.000 €, but most of them are around 100k €, Roadster around 160k € and SE30 around 200k €
     
  14. mikael82

    mikael82 Formula Junior

    Nov 18, 2007
    869
    Finland
    Full Name:
    Mikael
    I haven't check if I still have original tensioners in side, not in horry since I can't drive my car before it is 25-years old (car tax related issue - 07.2017 is not that far...) basicly that is same tensioner base, with only cut to bend with bolt, to hold tensioner shaft in place?
     
  15. Lars_vet

    Lars_vet Formula Junior

    Feb 25, 2007
    603
    On the open road
    Full Name:
    Lars
    The tensioners where a factory recall, where the old hydraulic tensioners was replaced by the manual SE30 tensioners.

    As "2aftercannonball" says, it is a relatively simple job to change to the manual tensioners.
    You might be able to hear if your tensioners are failing or have not self-ratcheted to the right tensions. When going off the throttle, you would hear a slight rattle from the chains. With the SE30 cars you do not have that noise, but a more pronounced “whine” from the tight chains.

    The original tensioners have a build in one-way ratchet tensioner system when is controlled by the engine oil system, the updated part is a simple manual screw and clap system, where the pressure feed hole is blocked off.
     
  16. Wolfgang

    Wolfgang F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 8, 2003
    16,743
    Heidelberg, Germany
    Full Name:
    Wolfgang
    ..... I did not know, that my `94 VT sucks so badly - always on the last place of the list :(
     
  17. Lars_vet

    Lars_vet Formula Junior

    Feb 25, 2007
    603
    On the open road
    Full Name:
    Lars
    I agree EMILIO.
    It is interesting to see what appear to be different approaches to these cars between Europe and the US.

    I am very fascinated by the early cars, not only for the raw driving experience and the very pure aesthetics, but very much also the history of the early cars, from the development work, Gandini, Munari, the Nardo high speed testing that where done, Worlds fastest car, to the impact it made when it was launched.
    It seems that more and more share this fascination of the original Diablo, with all myth and Lamborghini-hand build oddity’s that’s such a big part of it.

    In the US the later cars, 6.0, SV and Roadsters are very loved, often with the argument that they are “much better cars”, I have never understand that logic in these cars. Then the Murci is even better and the LP400 terrible.

    Personally I am not that fond of the chrome wheels, large stickers along with the not so elegant bumper designs.

    As times goes by and the SV and 6.0 cars get old enough to be completely out of comparison with the newer supercars, I suspect the interest will decrease a bit, at least with a quality and performance as arguments. After all the 6.0 are still relatively new cars.


    For now, sure the later cars have the edge price wise, but maybe it will level out as time goes by, despite the production numbers.
     
  18. EMILIO

    EMILIO F1 Veteran

    Feb 23, 2006
    6,853
    Italia
    #18 EMILIO, Jan 6, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2015
    good questions: prices are ALL over the board
    but there is a big difference btw a good diablo and a neglected one...so be carefull

    this does not mean the 70.000 euro diablo is a bad car and the 140.000 a great one...seller lately seems to ask top money for not top cars ...while you can still find good deals on nice original diablos.
    so each car should be valued according to conditions and originality, taking some time, inspecting it carefully before pulling the trigger on one.

    it is VERY easy to spend 25.000 euro in a diablo...i mean it is VERY easy, just few mechanic worcks, few original parts, a set of fresh tyres and ....VOILA' you spent that much on it.

    i have first hand experience on diablo resto-overhaul since i spent a lot on restoring my roadster...
    how much did it cost? exactly i do not know..i stopped counting after the 40.000 euros.

    i am pleased with the result, but do not believe it costed so much because it was a bad car

    i started with a good car with not many miles and few owners, the seller was VERY honest and we are still good friend
    still it was a driver and not a low miles car used only for sunny sundays, for some years driven in the UK (diablos do not like much salt and wet)
    it took me some time and patience to complete the worcks but i am happy with the final result...the car was one of few ex factory diablos, so imo worth to make it beautiful and in perfect running conditions.

    i have seen a pair of cars for sale for 70.000 euro...they were not good deals at all: wrong colors, parts from later models, no books, running so and so... i am sure if someone would really attempt a serious restoration it would end up costing as much as the purchase price.
    with diablos it is really important to understand what you are buyng

    so what is reasonable to pay? hard to answer...but this is my thought:

    2wd - VT cars: 60-65k euro for cars with ugly paint-tyred interior, not original parts, in need of mechanical worcks, etc..
    100k euro for average cars
    130k euro for all original cars in perfect running conditions ( i am not sayng the BEST preserved one or the lowest mileage on earth...of course a really special car is worth more)
    considering same conditions cars :
    roadster: 90-130-170
    VT 6.0: 100-130-170
    SV: 100-140-180
    SE30: 100-150-200

    last considerations:
    the worst cars as for conditions are usually on the earlier models...this because they are simply older! after 20-24 years some had seen really bad times and owners...while with the late cars (6.0 and GT) usually it is hard to find much tyred cars or car that had many owners.
    be prepared to pay premium for GOOD cars and do not feel stupid doing so (a one owner, all original, perfect running diablo is such a RARE find, if you are lucky to find one you will get all your money back whenever you would want to part with it)
    there are not few accident history cars (expecially the rwd cars...not easy to master them, while the VT are more idiot-proof and less cars had accident history)
    GT, Jota are so rare and special it is hard to put a value ...but sure they are well over 200k euro..how much north of it? i cannot tell and again depends on history, mileage, conditions... i do not believe a GT is worth 500.000 euro though..
    SV R and GT R are race cars, very rare and very special but again difficult to put a price on those...too many variables to consider, some cars are in need of everything while others are ready to go...
    also values are different depending on location: in some country you cannot drive them on the road, so not really much sought after there, while this is not an issue in other countries, (and to drive a racing diablo on the road i think is priceless :) )

    i realize i wrote too much on this subject...sorry for taking so much space...i just love the matter ;)
     
  19. Downdraft1

    Downdraft1 Formula Junior

    Nov 13, 2008
    787
    Actually, we are very fortunate to be able to choose which Diablo variant we want to purchase on the basis of price, performance and characteristics. Every variant does have strong points but also limitations, we can classify the pros and cons. There are many variants like the Roadster and SVs that I know very little about, I am certain that others can chime in to complete the evaluation:

    91-93
    Pros – first year, revolutionary design, lightweight, 2 wheel drive

    Cons - weak braking system, high instrument pod, naked engine bay, chain tensioners, no power steering


    SE30

    Pros – 30th Anniversary limited production and numbered series, two wheel drive, very light weight, staggered 18 inch rear rims and 17 inch fronts which give the SE30 a particular stance, first true carbon fiber body panels with exception of fenders, roof and doors), first new generation instrument cluster pods with white-faced gauges and 360 kph speedometer, magnesium and titanium components, more powerful engine and lightened crank (by 7.5 kilos) to increase the rev rate, unique front bumper and engine cover, gurney flap on CF rear spoiler, CF interior, four point racing seat belt option, first use of Alcantara, first use of adjustable traction control, sway bar regulation, first steering wheel with a “flat” bottom, power steering, drilled rotors and dedicated air ducts in the front end for brake cooling, SE30 Purple color. Dedicated badging.

    Cons – very low ride height due to modified front bumper (not speed bump friendly), little windows that are practically useless, brakes, although improved are still not up to par.


    Jota

    Pros - All of the above plus, even more exclusive production numbers, increased HP engine (the most powerful CC/HP ratio), roof forced induction, 400 kph speedometer, dedicated badging.

    Cons – all the above plus the Jota requires very experienced drivers for the brutal power band and acceleration – a very high percentage of Jota cars did not survive.


    VT

    Pros - new instrument pod (like the SE30), new chain tensioners, four wheel drive VT system, ABS braking, increased rim diameters and disk brake diameters and ride height settings

    Cons – added weight of the 4 WD system and ride height, initial problems with ABS braking during track use


    Roadsters

    Pros – open air supercar, spectacular look with the roof off, dedicated rims.

    Cons


    SV

    Pros – lightweight forced air induction engine with a dedicated engine cover, carbon fiber interior option (99 SV with fixed headlights, revised dash and more powerful engine, SV decal side script option and increased braking system

    Cons


    GT

    Pros – the GTR inspired limited series production run. six liter high performance engine with magnesium components and forced induction. A very powerful engine and carbon fiber interior and body, wider front wheel stance, front hood with air scoop for downforce and dedicated engine cover

    Cons - problems with lifting system


    GTR and SVR

    Pros – Very light weight and performance oriented, full roll cage and FIA homologation for track use

    Cons – very few comfort amenities like air conditioning, passenger seat, power steering and very difficult to register for road use due to lack of homologation for street use. Many cars have been involved in accidents and repaired.


    6.0

    Pros – Audi restyling with a much cleaner front and rear ends, full CF body, new generation 6.0 liter engine wider front track, magnesium wheels with dedicated design, new generation dash and much rich interior with shiny carbon fiber

    Cons – The diablo lost the Wedge look of the wide front track and narrower front end,


    6.0 SE

    Pros - Final and numbered edition, all of the 6.0 pros plus hand stitched interior, magnesium engine components

    Cons – With a few exceptions by the part of the UK importer all of the SE cars we painted either in brown or gold
     
  20. mikael82

    mikael82 Formula Junior

    Nov 18, 2007
    869
    Finland
    Full Name:
    Mikael
    How does engine numbers go with Diablo; On Countach is easy as number is same as chassi number (Nothing as mental as Ferrari did) On Diablo for some markets engine numbers where punched to the plate in enginebay, but some markets there was no engine number plate, except side of engine. It seems like engine numbers where little advange for chassi numbers; about 11 numbers for first two years.
     
  21. Downdraft1

    Downdraft1 Formula Junior

    Nov 13, 2008
    787
    The Countach Quattrovalole engine numbers have no reference what-so-ever to the chassis number.
     
  22. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

    Jun 25, 2005
    5,852
    By every objective measure they ARE the best cars

    Why not then get a Murci? Ugly styling by a Belgian, a slower car (due to the extra 400 lbs), looks too much like a Gallardo, and the first super-corporate car....Ugh
     
  23. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

    Jun 25, 2005
    5,852
    Pretty solid, I would go with:

    1. GT and Jota
    2. 6.0 SE and SE30
    3. 1999 Roadster
    4. 6.0
    5. 99 SV
    6. '97 & '98 Roadsters
    7. pre 99 SV
    8. 91-94 2WD
    9. VT

    I would break out the '99 roadster seperately due to the production numbers and the 1 year design type. The market already reflects the difference in value between a '99 and the older roadsters. And in time, I think the '99 roadster will overtake the 6.0 because of the rarity and topless nature.

    I think the early versions (despite the production numbers) will appeal to some looking for a "Countach Lite" car which will keep them ahead of the standard VT.
     
  24. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

    Jun 25, 2005
    5,852
    Now as far as a buying guide, here are some tips from my search:

    1. Get knowledgable - There are many sharks and con men in the exotic business
    2. Condition, condition, condition
    3. For God's sake, get on a plane and go see the cars for yourself....I HATE the stories from morons who are surprised cars are over-sold on condition
    4. Service records ARE important....there are lots of high $$$ repairs
    5. PPI - Duh
    6. Include a leakdown test in your PPI, that saved the bacon once for me
    7. Don't chase after non-motivated sellers - Damn these are hard to deal with, RIP Al Burtoni
     
  25. td80

    td80 Karting

    Nov 5, 2005
    161
    Irvine, CA
    Full Name:
    Dave M.
    I'm willing to bet money your 94 VT will be worth more than a comparable 91-93 2wd car for the rest of time.

    This particular market, the only thing that will matter over the next 20-30 years is rarity / production numbers. How "good" something is will be highly secondary. Mark my words.

    I have a 99 VT (temp coverted to RWD for my personal driving tastes) that I can't even find production numbers on. I suspect it may be rarer than the 99 roadster and SVs, as I know what kind of capacity the factory could produce and when you look at 99 roadster + SV + millenium roadster numbers, I can't imagine they made more than 50 units...

    At any rate the numbered cars, and anything with a SV badge are going to be mega dollars one day...


     
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