Diablo buyers guide | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Diablo buyers guide

Discussion in 'LamborghiniChat.com' started by licodix, Jan 5, 2015.

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  1. Diablo_4_Ever

    Diablo_4_Ever Formula Junior

    Nov 9, 2004
    949
    Netherlands
    #26 Diablo_4_Ever, Jan 6, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2015
    In terms of investment, at the current market prizes I don't think you can go wrong with any model as long as the car is in an original condition and doesn't have a bad history. That having said, the same kind of aspects apply as for other cars of this age and within this price range; that is, prizes and collectability are largely determined by condition, rarity and historic value. In terms of rarity and historic value, all Diablo models perform relatively well in this sense compared to the Murcielago and later models, with few exceptions. Rarity already seems to outweigh condition in the current Diablo market, and this will probably only increase. I doubt that mechanical issues such as the poor braking systems of the early cars will be of any influence on prizes, both in the short and long run; just look at the current Countach market. As rightly pointed out, one factor that will be of influence on the market is the different demand in different markets. The 6.0 for example seems currently in higher demand in the US than elsewhere; but this will only be an issue in the short run before the market globalizes. In any case, it will be interesting to see how the market will develop in the next few years and when the first Diablos will show up for auction.
     
  2. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

    Jun 25, 2005
    5,852
    How true...we will know we have arrived when Wayne Carini goes in search of a barn find Diablo.
     
  3. gday

    gday Formula 3

    Sep 10, 2004
    1,086
    CA, USA - NSW, AUS
    Full Name:
    Mick
  4. licodix

    licodix Formula Junior

    Feb 7, 2009
    334
    Central
    Full Name:
    Barchetta Mad Max
    10 USD?
     
  5. td80

    td80 Karting

    Nov 5, 2005
    161
    Irvine, CA
    Full Name:
    Dave M.
    Deal :)

     
  6. lince

    lince Karting

    Sep 26, 2006
    142
    what about SVR?
     
  7. Mr Mezzanotte

    Mr Mezzanotte Formula Junior

    Aug 22, 2006
    632
    UK
  8. Lfsglass

    Lfsglass Rookie

    Sep 21, 2013
    39
    New Orleans
    #33 Lfsglass, Feb 9, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2015
    I like your way of thinking!

    Just bought the #3 Monterey Edition SV this past December. I sure hope you're correct, lol.

    I think all Diablo models are a steal for the prices they were selling for in the recent years. Truly a lot of car for the money.

    They are all relatively limited in production. Now that Audi seems to be "mass producing" lamborghini's (relatively speaking), the older cars will continue to increase in value IMO...

    Comparison:
    2,038 Lamborghini Countach's built from '74-'90.
    2,967 Lamborghini Diablo's built from '90-'01
    4,099 Lamborghini Murcielago's built from '01-'10.
    14,022 Lamborghini Gallardo's built from '03-'13.
    3,691 Lamborghini Aventador's built from '11- '14 & still in production.
    1,213 Lamborghini Huracan's have been built for its first production year alone.

    Corvette:
    215,100 C6 Corvettes built from '05-'13
    37,288 C7 Corvette's built in '14 alone.

    Camaro:
    97,632 Cameros built in '14 alone

    Mustang:
    134,075 Mustangs built in '14 alone
     
  9. td80

    td80 Karting

    Nov 5, 2005
    161
    Irvine, CA
    Full Name:
    Dave M.
    Just think... Aventador is a 10 year lifespan car (according to Winky himself).

    I would expect barring massive overhaul the sales will drop off as it gets long in the tooth, but at current rates that is going to be over 11,000 units...

    China sales really making an impact!
     
  10. licodix

    licodix Formula Junior

    Feb 7, 2009
    334
    Central
    Full Name:
    Barchetta Mad Max
     
  11. Mr Mezzanotte

    Mr Mezzanotte Formula Junior

    Aug 22, 2006
    632
    UK
    According to Wikipedia they have moulds to make only 5000 Aventadors, and they are around 3000 now I think, and with the SV about to be launched - what you make after the SV version ?

    I suspect it has limited years left (launched in 2011).
     
  12. SingleSeat

    SingleSeat Rookie

    Feb 13, 2015
    28
    #37 SingleSeat, Feb 13, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2015
    Hi all, joined up today. Looks like I need to stand up for the early VT here. Actually, I probably don't need to and what I think has nothing to do with the fact that I own a '94 VT. I love the early 2WD cars and would love to have one as well (I love every Diablo model and would like one of each, thank you). I will simply make some points to show where the VT sits, like it or not. I think that you guys are being a little too hard on the car because there is no evidence out there yet to suggest that a 91/92 car will surpass a 94/95 car in value. My reasoning is based on past performance predicting future results. Every model along the Diablo line has remained (relatively) consistently positioned among its peers since the car left production, with only a few outliers every now and then that can't really define a trend. If anything, there might be some jockeying among the newest cars or rarest cars as collector values settle out amongst them. Having said all that, a VT being marginally more expensive than an earlier car is almost a moot point once we're dealing with six-figure cars.

    I see this on the Lambo boards too, from all the non-VT guys...that the VT will somehow fall off the Earth and the early 2WD car will rise like a Phoenix. To this date, the 94-95 VT has been consistently a few thousand dollars more than an early 2WD car. I'm not screaming "because it's worth it" either, even though the VT incrementally improved on features of the earliest cars. I'm just pointing out how values have gone without guessing as to the reason. Whether that's $5k or $15k, I don't care and I think the degree to which the VT is more costly is actually insignificant. The point being that it has lived on the plus side of the low end cars for twenty years. Early 2WD production was almost double that of early VT production, making the VT rarer, yet I don't think the rarity will matter. The larger 2WD production numbers can lead to a lower value, but I don't think that will matter either. The cars' pros and cons basically cancel each other out and the influence factors of mileage and condition are all over the map. The person buying the early 2WD car is largely the same person who would buy an early VT and paying few bucks more, especially as the cars get rarer, probably won't matter as much as having a Diablo by itself matters. Assuming the cars will end up with some measure of collector's status, and one or two cars are showing up on the market every other month, whichever car is for sale will be what that person buys. There aren't a bunch of snobs populating the bottom rung of Diablo values holding out for their perfectly spec'd example. If anyone is going to wait around for what they want in a seller's market, it's the people who are buying the most expensive cars much like the person who is waiting for the perfect low-body Countach in today's Countach market.

    True that the VT system civilizes the car to some extent, but it's really not as Earth shattering as the boards lead everyone to believe. Removing the system is always an option (inexpensive and reversible), and there are still nit-noid performance measures that can steer logic to a VT, such as bigger brakes and power steering. Taking the system out of my car livened up the chassis and it feels like an ornery '91/92 car now, but I like it both ways for different reasons. This way, I get the same angry car with the cosmetics and electrical improvements that appeal more to me. To say that the entire market of Diablo buyers in ten years will suddenly become pickier and scoff the 94/95 VT en masse is unlikely due to the last 20 years of these cars being bought and sold, rank and file. If they do, I can admit I was wrong and chalk it up to a one-off cosmic event.

    I can see where folks are standing up for their particular car as if it is a solitary standout. We each have our own list, and my buy list has its own slant too...not that I expect others to share my priorities.

    1) 94-95 VT
    1.5) 91-93 2WD
    2) SE30
    3) GT
    4) Jota
    5) 98 SV
    6) late VT
    8) 6.0 VT
    9) Roadster

    This is because we each have our reasons for the car inspiring us. My inspiration started when the car was in its first years of production. After that, the car began to change and I didn't really like the changes. I was enthralled with the early wheels, early wing, early headlights, etc. etc. and everything else after that just felt like an afterthought trying to appease an increasingly trendy and impatient market (at the time). I very much view my Diablo through the same eyes I had in the early 90s, and that makes the ownership experience a thrill. I never hated the later cars (I love 'em to death), I just wasn't as excited about them. The moral of the story is that each Diablo is a passion-based purchase and that is why I take issue with Shark's "By every objective measure [later cars] ARE the best cars" statement because there needn't be any objectivity to measuring or buying a Diablo. Anyone bringing objectivity into this car is cheating themselves out of more fun than is possible with a Diablo. They're old cars, so much of their worth is purely in memories and it's those memories that will drive values -- not better suspension or better wheels or better brakes.

    The crux of my issue with this is that this type of conversation singles out one model as markedly inferior such that any real enthusiast is somehow doing it wrong in buying that car. The truth being that the model years simply have their differences and buyers need only choose which one fits them best. There's really no wrong way to go. Do I need to insult someone with a roadster as a car I would never pay money for? No, it just isn't the car for me and that's ok because it is the car for someone. The "least desirable Diablo" conversation is about as pointless as the "least desirable Countach" conversation has already proven to be.
     
  13. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,448
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    If anybody knows of a diablo that needs mechanical work, popped engine, gearbox..what ever please let me know. I'm in the market for one.
     
  14. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2002
    6,712
    Lakeland FL
    Full Name:
    Shamile
    #39 Shamile, Feb 15, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Well, that's one hell of a first post! Welcome to the board. You make some very good points and I for one like the improvements made to the 94 VT ( 97.5 Roadster owner here)
    Even Roy said it's one of the most reliable Diablos out there. A lot of issues with the early cars were solved on the VT like the tensioners, crank bearings, crazy dash pod, brakes etc.

    I myself see the Diablo line as a whole and given the low numbers of the complete series, it will be what comes on the market is what will be snapped up. Right now on cars.com there's 81 Aventadors for sale compared to 8 Diablos. Guess which model will appreciate?

    For me, I really prefer the Roadster. They took the more aggressive lines from the SE30 and applied it to the Roadster in addition to the "fighter jet" Radiator intakes. Not to mention it's top down motoring at it's finest. Ever tried to put on a Murci Roadster top? The Diablo's top is such a breeze....one minute, that's it.

    I hang out with a local Ferrari owners group and the Diablo just sticks out like a hot stripper amongst a bunch of nuns. Even once when I was parked next to a LP640, the LP just looked like a blob. I really think that the only car that compares in sheer visual presence is a F 40....as all the early test magazines compared it to....Testarossa, what's that? (91 Testarossa owner too)


    Shamile

    Freeze...Miami Vice!
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  15. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2002
    6,712
    Lakeland FL
    Full Name:
    Shamile
    I think you're a little late Tom.


    Shamile

    Freeze...Miami Vice!
     
  16. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,448
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    I know, I know..don't kick me while I'm down..;)
     
  17. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2002
    6,712
    Lakeland FL
    Full Name:
    Shamile
    lol....me? Never....but maybe the market. ;) You better just buy in now or we'll be saying the same thing in 6 months.

    Shamile

    Freeze. ..Miami Vice!
     
  18. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,448
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    I'm looking I'm looking!!
     
  19. Diablo_4_Ever

    Diablo_4_Ever Formula Junior

    Nov 9, 2004
    949
    Netherlands
  20. montpellier

    montpellier Formula Junior

    Aug 27, 2009
    705
    Europe
    Full Name:
    Paul
    Interesting thread to return to after a few years, and little has changed really. I would add that very early cars, 2 WD without PAS and the original dash binnacle are hard to find in good condition. Many have had dash upgraded and wheels changed to OZ 18 inch due to hard to find original wheels (that damage and leak). Many have dubious updates elsewhere too. I know I was looking for one. Not that it changes where it sits in the pecking order but a very early Diablo has a sense of raw beauty and allure for all it's defects , subsequently ironed out over the years. For me that appeals.
     
  21. EMILIO

    EMILIO F1 Veteran

    Feb 23, 2006
    6,853
    Italia
    after 3 years i believe the real deal of the diablos are today unmodified 2wd cars and SV
    if you can find a good one of those for sale.....70% of 2wd look to have been modified or crashed
    and SV....almost none around

    looks the good ones are hardly for sale
     
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  22. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

    Jun 25, 2005
    5,852
    As time goes on, the Roadsters will become more and more valuable....you see that trend time and time again, open top cars eclipsing the coupe variants.
     
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  23. geno berns

    geno berns F1 Rookie

    Oct 26, 2006
    3,006
    Midwest
    Full Name:
    Geno
    What’s the update on pricing? In 2015 Emilio stated in Euros:

    2wd - VT cars: 60-65k euro for cars with ugly paint-tyred interior, not original parts, in need of mechanical worcks, etc..
    100k euro for average cars
    130k euro for all original cars in perfect running conditions ( i am not sayng the BEST preserved one or the lowest mileage on earth...of course a really special car is worth more)
    considering same conditions cars :
    roadster: 90-130-170
    VT 6.0: 100-130-170
    SV: 100-140-180
    SE30: 100-150-200
     
  24. EMILIO

    EMILIO F1 Veteran

    Feb 23, 2006
    6,853
    Italia
    #49 EMILIO, Apr 4, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2018
    today i would say prices went up a bit and are going up again (imo):

    2wd - VT cars: 100-105k euro for cars with ugly paint-tyred interior, not original parts, in need of mechanical worcks, etc..
    135k euro for average cars
    170k euro for all original cars in perfect running conditions ( i am not sayng the BEST preserved one or the lowest mileage on earth...of course a really special car is worth more)
    considering same conditions cars :
    roadster: 150-200-250
    VT 6.0: 170-225-280
    SV: 170-210-260
    SE30: 180-250-300


    i think SV and 2wd cars are the ones that could appreciate more in the nearest future
    SV being to cheap compared to VT 6.0 and SE30, considering how special SV is for lamborghini! , its perfect look and the fact is one of the nicest diablo to use
    2wd being the purest looking car (lp 400 of the diablo line-up), super wild and rae
    and, while is not the rarest in diablo world, the unmodified, no crashed, no history cars are close to impossible to find for sale

    roadster is a safe bet, but i think in the longer run, since is the first "V12" lamborghini open top produced, we cannot consider one miura and a couple of convertible 350GT real production cars.

    SE30 will always have a special place in long time lamborghini aficionados.
    also special body, light weight, 2wd and numbered means they are not getting any cheaper
     
  25. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

    Jun 25, 2005
    5,852
    Not only was it the first Lamborghini mid-engine open roof V12, but Ferrari NEVER made a regular production car in the same configuration, so there was also no competition in the segment. And all Diablos are manual transmission cars so you don't have to pick through a bunch of automatics to get the fun transmission.

    Collectors are figuring this stuff out about Diablos in general and Roadsters in particular. I can put my Roadster in a 2wd configuration, but short of pulling out a sawz-all, you aren't getting the sensory stimulation that Roadsters provide at 7,000 rpm.....its totally epic :)
     

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