News

Diminished Value Question

Discussion in '360/430' started by Scuderia Cowboy, Nov 29, 2017.

Tags:
  1. Scuderia Cowboy

    Nov 29, 2017
    3
    Full Name:
    Louis Adler
    I purchased a new 360 Modena Spider from a Ferrari dealership in 2003. The car has been very well taken care of for many years, only serviced by Ferrari dealerships, and has around 8500 miles. Recently, my virgin car was hit by another automobile while parked in a garage. There was only body damage to the car and it has been repaired to look new again, but now the car has an accident history.

    I'm looking for someone to help me understand what the range of the diminished value might be due to the accident? I need to know for insurance purposes.

    Thanks so much for your help and insight.
     
  2. jjsaustin

    jjsaustin Formula Junior

    May 11, 2008
    539
    Austin, TX
    Full Name:
    Jim
    It would depend on how much damage was done and how much the claim was for.

    Was it a dent or a crease in the panel? Was it a fender/door that was easily replaced? Did they have to weld on a quarter panel?

    Need more details...
     
  3. I'm 360 Canuck

    I'm 360 Canuck Formula 3

    Nov 21, 2015
    1,794
    Ontario, The Real One in Canada
    Full Name:
    Lars!
    man, that sucks. pretty much impossible to know the answer though. its very intangible.
    I agree with the above, it also depends on the extent of the damage. I hope you have lots of pics and documentation, it may help.
     
  4. mkzhang

    mkzhang Formula Junior

    Oct 5, 2009
    534
    Philadelphia
    Full Name:
    Mike
    There are diminished value experts out there you can hire. But if you want to do some of the work yourself, it mainly involves documenting the damage, and get as much statements from dealer and wholesaler as possible the trade in value and retail value of your car with and without the damaged record


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  5. mkzhang

    mkzhang Formula Junior

    Oct 5, 2009
    534
    Philadelphia
    Full Name:
    Mike
    To follow up on my prior post, you're going to get into a pissing contest vs the insurance co on what the diminished claim is, and it will come down to their "black box" calc vs your list of expert data points in front of a judge


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    KC360 FL likes this.
  6. Edgewood

    Edgewood Rookie

    Feb 25, 2015
    6
    I work for an independent appraisal company that prepares auto diminished value reports whose name shall go unmentioned as I don't want to get banned by a moderator for spamming. People interested in buying cars like yours definitely have the money to avoid units with prior repair histories. A car with a less discriminating clientele will lose about 15% of its trade-in value prior to the accident assuming no structural damage or air bag deployment. Add a few percentage points because of picky buyers and your in the ballpark. I will caution you that all large insurance companies give guidelines to their adjusters designed to mislead and misdirect you to where you want to put a gun to your head. Get a comprehensive diminished value appraisal that will be based on something other than a formula and then prepare for battle. I recently gave expert testimony in a case that was won by my client, $40K in diminished value plus all of his attorney, appraiser and expert witness fees. Hopefully you won't have to litigate.
     
  7. jjsaustin

    jjsaustin Formula Junior

    May 11, 2008
    539
    Austin, TX
    Full Name:
    Jim
    We still haven't heard the extent of the damage and cost of repairs. Was it like $2k or $20k?

    I would argue if it was near the lower end and the OP has pictures, most people would not care (kinda like a bumper respray for rock chips).

    Given it happened while the car was parked, personally I would not care even if it was something like a fender or door that was damaged, where you could bolt on a new one.

    If they wiped out the whole front clip and it was all mangled, that would be a different story...
     
  8. KM1959

    KM1959 Formula Junior

    Nov 12, 2014
    984
    Full Name:
    Kevin
    I totally agree with this. The car is 15 years old and stuff happens.

    If I was looking to buy this car I would totally embrace its positive attributes (one owner, low mileage, well-maintained) over the negative of a correctly repaired fender. On the other hand, i would run away from a 9-owner, negected, rust-belt area, without supporting maintainance records, but with no fender benders.
     
  9. G. Pepper

    G. Pepper F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 15, 2012
    15,674
    San Antonio, Texas
    Full Name:
    George Pepper
    Extent of damage is important. If it was just a fender or a bumper facade, I wouldn't even have reported it to my insurance company to begin with. That you did hints that the damage may have been more severe than that.

    But we don't know, so you'll have to tell us.
     
  10. KC360 FL

    KC360 FL Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 20, 2017
    767
    Melbourne Florida
    Full Name:
    KGC
    my .02. Gotta feel like this was a "collector quality" car given the one owner, Ferrari serviced, and the low mileage. The fact that now it has a repair it will fall (unjustified or not) in value from what IMO seems to be a high quality, collector quality car. I would play that card really hard here.

    I too have duke-ed it out with the insurance companies on a few occasions and Mike is right. It is a long process, lots of angering phone calls, many times complete indifference by the agents involved, and most times not very rewarding in the end. I truly wish you luck. It sucks. I've been through it. Unfortunately because it is an incident and not an accident (with the threat of injury damages payable by the insurance companies involved) there is little desire to pay out a fair settlement. In one case I was able to hire an attorney for a flat fee. You may want to look into that.
     
    Natkingcolebasket69 likes this.
  11. Testarossa Lover

    Testarossa Lover F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 31, 2006
    3,448
    Newport Beach, CA
    Full Name:
    Haig Barsamian
    Sorry to hear about your accident.

    When my TR was in an accident, I had the car appraised. DV was around 30K. We settled our case with appraisal in hand. I sold the car in 2014 and it resold in 2015, both buyers had no issues with the accident. Two weeks ago, I saw an ad and next to the selling car was a silver/red TR, I called to see if it was mine, seller called me and we chatted, he said he loves the car, will not sell it unless it was some carzy $$$. Obviously, a fully documented car and transparency will yield higher $$$ at time of a sell but when I was selling, almost all callers wanted to use the accident to push a low ball offer. If you are keeping your car after the repair, get it appraised and go after the other party.
     
    Afonsolaw likes this.
  12. dmcarguy

    dmcarguy Rookie

    Aug 6, 2016
    2
    Philadelphia
    Full Name:
    Dru Marks
    Check out wreckcheck.com
     
  13. Scuderia Cowboy

    Nov 29, 2017
    3
    Full Name:
    Louis Adler
    Thank you so much for all the help and insight! I really appreciate it. The car was actually damaged while at a Ferrari dealership for service!!! They did the bodywork repairs before I could see the damage in person, but when you meter the car it will show both the front left and back right panels and some of the hood no longer have the original paint. They claim all damage was cosmetic, but when I sell the car I still need to notify the future owner that it was in an accident.

    The average for-sale price on AutoTrader and Ferrari.com for similar cars is in the $120k-$130k range. Even if an actual sale price was less, their insurance company said they'll only cover $2500 for diminished value - with no basis for how they arrive at that amount. In my estimation, there's no way anyone would purchase a car with an accident history for about 2% less than they could purchase an equivalent automobile without any accident history. Case-in-point, my mother had a very minor "fender bender" with her MB but it was repaired to look new again. When she traded it into the dealership to get a new car, they took about $8k off the price she would have received had there been no accident history and that car had nowhere near the value of my 360 Spider.

    Does that help with what you'd think a DV range would be?
    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  14. mkzhang

    mkzhang Formula Junior

    Oct 5, 2009
    534
    Philadelphia
    Full Name:
    Mike
    What you stated are all anecdotal evidence and you won't stand a a chance against their insurance co.

    You need, in writing, what people are willing to take the car in on trade or buy it for.

    Start with the Ferrari dealer. Negotiate a deal on one of their car and then offer to trade yours in. Then let them know it's been repaired. Make sure you get their trade offer before and after the disclosure.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  15. dmcarguy

    dmcarguy Rookie

    Aug 6, 2016
    2
    Philadelphia
    Full Name:
    Dru Marks
    Wreckcheck.com
     
  16. Scuderia Cowboy

    Nov 29, 2017
    3
    Full Name:
    Louis Adler
    Ferrari isn't an option in the list of cars on their website.
     
    shubchs likes this.
  17. KC360 FL

    KC360 FL Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 20, 2017
    767
    Melbourne Florida
    Full Name:
    KGC
    Wow. That's a lot of paint work. Did the dealer give an explanation as to what happened?

    FWIW as a Restoration Shop owner, even my shop insurance provides up to literally a million dollars coverage for cars in my care that get damaged while road testing or other reasons. And I'm sure I have a much smaller enterprise than a Ferrari dealership. To be sure they are covered for likely at least that amount.

    Don't get jerked around. Get an attorney. Sadly this is what almost everything comes to now when those involved who create the problem want to simply get off as easy as they can. And without an attorney you will, as you have found, be facing silly assumptions that those at fault will expect you to accept unverified and unjustified. But with that said you are your best champion. Gather facts, documentation, line up credible professional folks that will support your findings with a simple letter or email. You will have to wear on the Dealer and wear them down. Believe me, I know, I've been there with a Carrera 3.0 years ago. At some point they will realize it's just time to settle. Your documentation will be a lever for them to be fair about it-- Not just what they deem necessary to make you go away regarding a problem they created. Perhaps the most important piece of the puzzle here is that they have already admitted to fault and a payment. Get that in writing. Very important down the line as "stories" will undoubtedly change as you proceed.

    I have a similar situation I'm in right now. Not about a car, though. I have an attorney and it's been a year now and the offenders are still dragging their feet. So prepare yourself.
     

Share This Page