Asking here rather than the BAT auction so it stays a little more on focus… Knowing these engine components are just about impossible to find, what type of value would be expected if they ever happened to come up for sale?
As was discussed on the BaT auction, the reproduction bits to build up an engine to this spec. are more expensive than a That it a difficult question, as they never come up for sale. Just for perspective: There is a "kit" composed of reproduction parts to build a Dino to 246 engine to 24 valve specification. I was quoted 72K Euro when I enquired about it a year ago. Then you have the expense of a blueprinted rebuild on top of that. The parts installed on the car listed on BaT are genuine. To a Stratos collector they are virtually priceless, as they are the ultimate "trick bits" for the Stratos. In a game of Stratos poker if you want a straight flush all the way to the King, you need the 24 valve engine. When these ex-works parts were acquired by the previous owner of the car in the early 80's as obsolete race parts that few cared about, he still paid about what he could have bought a complete Dino for at the time. I have no delusions that this car with this engine will bring a massive premium over an unmodified one, as it would in a Stratos. It's as big of a wild card as it is a wild car. I think it presents a unique opportunity for an enthusiast who just wants to experience "maximum Dino" with an engine developed as far as the factory did without the hassle of Lucas injection (F2 & Tasman) or Kugelfischer injection (tried on the Stratos) which made another 20 or so horsepower at the expense of reliability. The purveyor of the reproduction 24 valve parts offered to rebuild this engine free of charge if I would be willing to let them keep the genuine parts, so that would be a "worst case" wholesale value. The engine in Dino #05978 is fresh and dialed in, so that proposition would be a complete waste at this point.
Circling back to the compression ratio question. Here is a comparison of the replica and genuine combustion chambers. As I jog my memory, I recall the 14:1 number being for the replica. Image Unavailable, Please Login
DCNFs are designed to be mounted 90 degrees from how they are mounted in Dinos (positioned laterally, not longitudinally), which is the primary issue. IDFs are the opposite. That's why DCNFs work well in 308s, etc.
308s have the same issue but maybe it's not as pronounced. The most clever fix for this I've seen was done by a VW bug enthusiast who made a brass extension tube snorkel that fit into the DCNF float bowl breather vertically about 30mm, thus the float bowl breather would never dump fuel onto the air corrector/emulsion tubes
What one needs to do this conversation are the rods, pistons, heads, cams, IDF intake manifold. It is all available to be made (what can't) new by an outfit in Germany for some $40k+ in parts alone, not including associated costs in rebuilding the engine to install. I would think these parts being original extremely rare air and essentially legendary components as they are tied to Lancia Stratos and Ferrari history would be valued at least a good bit more than the replicas. I get the feeling the public on BaT aren't hip as they should be as to how special this build is. It's not just some hot-rodded Dino. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE original Dino's, they are fabulous, but a chance at something like this is truly special. One could call it the GTO of Dino's. Unicorn status achieved.
Quick question that was perhaps covered on BAT - are there records that conclusively show that the parts are original Stratos works bits? Apologies if duplicative…
Yes, They are listed in the correspondence between Alex Moore and John Burbiridge which are posted late in the Gallery.
I think the 4-valve setup originated with the Ferrari Tasman engine. They had "Ferrari" on the cam covers. Mine say "Dino 246" and the racing Stratos had "Lancia" on the covers. There was the 2-liter engine and the 2.4 and also a 3-valve engine (two intake and one exhaust. Gr.4 was 2.4 liter and most always with special 48 IDF carbs. A big lot of Stratos Gr4 racing parts including new gearbox gears, drop gears, 4-valve heads, cams and other special parts ended up in California and was there for a long time till Dennis McCann bought all that was left--half a semi load of Stratos racing parts dirt cheap. Dennis wanted me to go in half with him on it but I was too stupid at the time to say yes.
Not a dumb question at all. I think the previous owner just wanted black interior. I don't know why he took "Daytona" seats and made them into "Dino" seats. Maybe he thought they were too "Ferrari", when he was going for the "almost a Ferrari" that blitzes the Ferrari? There are definitely some enigmatic but cool aspects to this build.
They are. I'm not certain if he reskinned the seats or maybe swapped them out with another Dino owner he met along his journey.
The first 4-valve Dino was the 166 F2. The design was upscaled for the 246 Tasman shortly afterwards. I have never had either of those apart to see exactly how they evolved. I do have this photo of a 166 F2 piston mounted on a Schedoni presentation base that was originally given to Tino Brambilla. His daughter still has it. I've never seen such deep valve pockets. The 4V "works" Stratos 4V valve covers did say "Dino 246" on them. The replica parts we discussed earlier say "Lancia" on the valve covers. If you watch the YouTube link below (fast forward to 28:30) you will see a tour of the works team garage. The mechanics are installing a 24 V 246 engine with "Dino 246" cast into the valve covers to a GR4 Stratos. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
That Lancia plate is the one I remember. I will have to ask Popper about it. Seems the more likely thing for the racing team to do for so few engines.
Here is a photo of a 24V 246/ Stratos engine from Popper's collection. The valve covers still have "Dino 246" cast on them. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Something is wrong if a 308 is starving in corners. I never had a problem with DCNFs installed in the proper orientation, even in a previous autocross car.
I've set up at least 15 carbureted 308s and every one of them has the same issue when cornering too hard. It's not starving, it's fuel from the float bowl leaking through the breather hole into the air corrector and emulsion tube causing a rich misfire. It's probably not as bad as the Dino, but it's there. Maserati Merak has the same issue and the carbs are oriented in the same direction as 308s.
So no front indicator lights? I wonder if it could be an issue when registering the car. Obviously depends on how strict the local DMV is…
There are front indicator lights. They are simply integrated into the front head lights. A rather elegant solution in my view. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Did you engineer that or are those (led?) bulbs integral to the main lights? I used to run Cibié with the “city lights.” I always wondered if those could be wired up to flash with the turn signals.
I didn't. The previous owner/modifier of the car added those. I liked the solution he came up with, so I left them as they were. Yes, they are LED
Great pic. Really interesting that the primary length is that long. Would have thought they’d be a bit shorter consider the intake tract length.
Hello John, my language barrier leaves me not understanding your sentence. What do you mean by this comment? Regards, Alberto
I was referring to the individual exhaust manifold tubes (primaries) which feed directly from each cylinder to the component which joins the 3 pipes (the collectors). For an engine that revs this high I expected the tuned primary length to be somewhat shorter, as many of the later models such as the 355 and later manifolds demonstrate. As a general rule, the need for a long primary tube is reduced as the speed of the engine increases, because there’s less time between cylinder firing, and the low-pressure area has less time to travel to the collector. It seems like Ferrari were like most everyone else at the time as wave scavenging and inertial scavenging were likely not fully developed concepts.
