This is for a nice example, ready for track use, without any significant history. It's a rare car in an odd economic environment. I might ask the same question for the Lotus Eleven. Thanks in advance, Matt
At a recent (Nov 08) auction in Australia a Lotus 18 sold for A$200k (~US$140) incl. buyers premium and a Lotus Eleven sold for A$140k (~US$100k). Results here with the Lotus 18 being lot 57 and the Eleven lot 53. HTH PS: do you have any photos?
Matt- Is the particular example you are referencing located in Pennsylvania with chassis # FJ757? Best Regards, -Matthew
Well, that's interesting, Matthew. That's the 3rd Lotus 18 that I know of in Pennsylvania. No, I wasn't thinking of that car. But it's interesting. Although it has sat for the past 12 years, and would need to be extensively gone through for track use. Thank you, Aedo, for the auction information. I'm not sure which car I'm interested in. Interesting that the Eleven sold for less than the 18. Was there a big difference in condition?
Can't help with condition as I didn't get to see the cars - discussion in this thread - http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=222194 and much more knowledgeable people there too. Good luck with the search
Interesting to know that there are a handful of 18's in PA. I have had my eye on #FJ757 as it looks like a very solid and clean example which only needs minor attention to regain it's track worthiness. I would be curious to learn more about the car you are interested in. As I am sure you know, the values of these cars really does depend on multiple factors. The history of the car plays a very important role as does the originality of the chassis/frame and motor. If memory serves me correctly, the 18's were first powered by the 2.5L Climax, followed by the 1.5L Climax (due to strict Formula One rulings) and the last motor was a Cosworth which I think was used in the Formula 18 Junior. Needless to say, any Climax powered Lotus will fetch a higher value. From my findings and personal research over the past few months, I have seen the 18's trading for anywhere from USD$50,000 to $150,000. The problem with purchasing these cars is finding the darn things. For the average prospective buyer it is quite a rarity. They always seem to trade hands between vintage racers and simply never hit the market. It was interesting to see that the 18 sold for more than the eleven. I have seen the elevens trading for slightly higher prices ranging anywhere from USD$70,000 to $145,000. I have had the pleasure of driving an eleven as well as an 18. Both make for fantastic vintage racers, and it is solely a matter of personal choice as they are two completely different animals. To touch on your question regarding RHD cars or LH shifting, it is an element that I find really contributes to the driving experience of the vehicle. Trying to convert an 18 to RH shift is more trouble than it is worth with regards to the linkage on the transaxle. You will find that after spending a few laps in a LH shifted car, you will be banging through the gearbox without any hesitation. In conclusion, it is a very smart time to enter the market for either car. I have certainly started to see many opportunities to acquire cars which rarely hit the market. Keep in mind that if you opt for an 18, you could always pick up a Westfield Eleven for a mere USD$30,000 and have the best of both worlds! I am very partial to owning the real car; however, the Westfield is a very impressive recreation and well worth the money. Best Regards, -Matthew
Thank you for the information, Matthew. In part, I want to Vintage Race a car, so the Westfield is out. Could you please describe the differences between the two from a driving perspective?
Know some folks who have raced Lotus 23s and they are considered to be fabulous vintage racers at any class. Open wheel infinitly more dangerous.
Have you raced before? If not get some seat time in a Lotus 7 or an Alfa. Cars like the Lotus 23,18 and Elva race cars can be a handfull if you are not experienced.
Not raced in earnest. I've logged a good number of hours in Jim Russell and Skip Barber open wheelers, and have had my Porsche 911 on the track. I'm awfully slow, but quite safe. I spun a mid-engined open wheeler in Turn 1 at Mid Ohio, which taught me very well to not lift off in the middle of a corner.
I would get one of the cars mentioned in my previous post and get some good seat time then move up from what you are telling me. How about racing a vintage 911? I know how you feel I was looking at Lola T70's and some can am type cars. I realy love the look of those cars. One drive in one around the track and it was too much car for me. The same with a 1958 Corvette race car. I just did not have the seat time to drive the cars safely.
That's interesting, Steve. Thank you for the feedback. I'm a little surprised that you recommend a 911 over a solid axle Corvette. The 911 is out; I'm looking for a VSCCA compliant car. Can Am cars are in an entirely different league!
If you want to jump in at the sharp end of the grid I have a Brabham BT29 FB car for sale at $105K Just finishing a complete restoration with the best of everything. Many spares and trailer Pics. in my profile and album PM in interested Dave "If ya can't see yer wheels ya ain't racin"
Nice looking car, Dave. I think it's a little too deep for my swimming skills! Perhaps I should start a different post on perhaps trading my 330 2+2 for a VSCCA car...
I apologize for such the long delay in my response. I have been absolutely inundated with work and simply have not have the time to compose a message. I see that many others have recommended numerous different makes of vehicles for you to start out vintage racing with. While I do agree that there are many great cars to buy other than a Lotus, I feel confident in stating that you should buy a Lotus as they are obviously what you are interested in! I was glad to read that you already have some experience driving an open-wheeled mid-engine car, because they are certainly a different animal. There are certainly a lot of do's and dont's with them and it sounds like you experienced one of the dont's in that corner. If you are just planning on putting around a race track, then I don't see any problem starting out in an 18. You will learn the car's characteristics and reactions quite rapidly. I'm speaking from personal experience here, but my first track car was a vintage-race prepped '63 Super 7. The car has a mild motor, but the suspension is set-up perfectly, and there was a lot of speed left to be found in the driver (me). I would highly recommend a 7 as a first track car for you. A well prepped HMSA, CSRG, or VSCCA compliant example will run you anywhere from $24k to $35k; whereas, the 18, an 11, or a 23b/c will run you upwards of $50k minimum. Again, it really comes down to how much you want to spend and what you are looking to do. An 18 will take more seat time before you could drive it as fast as say a 7 or an 11. If you have the capability to do so, try to convince someone to either take you out in a 7 and/or drive the car yourself. From your Russell and Barber school experience, you will already have a feel of what an 18 will be like. Hopefully you are making strides with your decision! Here's a picture of my '63 Super 7 just for kicks and yes it is real ! Check out www.simplesevens.org Image Unavailable, Please Login
I was looking to buy a Lotus 18 a few years back and really nice ones were priced in the mid-40's and ones with some needs were in the low 30's. Of course cars with significant history or with F1 style engines were priced considerably higher. I can't imagine that prices have spiked that much in recent years. I've started looking again and have found only one for sale at $70K. Nice car but I think it's overpriced. Nice thing about an 18 is that they are accepted to race almost anywhere. The predominant race club in here in the Northeast is the VSCCA and they only allow select pre-1960 cars to run. A Lotus 23 or any Lotus 7 (except for a series 1) would have a very limited number of events to run here in the Northeast. Make sure the car has a Renault close ratio gearbox since the VSCCA (unless they recently changed the rules) won't allow it run with a Hewland. Good luck with your search, hopefully we won't be fighting for the same car! JP
Interesting information about the VSCCA regulations. I did not know they only allowed pre-1960 cars to run. Running a series 1 seven would be pretty crude!
It depends on which motor you run in the 7. A series 1 with a Coventry Climax engine, which is VSCCA legal, is a pretty neat race car! JP
I did a bit more research and it looks like the prices of 18's and most formula juniors have gone up recently. There are fewer to choose from in the US since quite a few went to Europe when the dollar was weak. I found another 18 on the East coast that's priced in the mid-40's but it has front disc brakes and a Hewland gearbox. Neither would be allowed in the VSCCA. A good Renault box would run at least $5K plus another $1K to convert back to drums. If the Hewland is in good shape it could probably fetch at least $3K. The rest of the car looks pretty good. If anyone is interested let me know and I'll put you in contact with the seller. I'm going to pass on this one in the hope that prices will soften. I also need to clear out some "inventory" first. Anybody interested in a 42' Harley WLA or 37' BMW R6? JP
