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Does Anyone Know Why The Elastic Bands Have Been Eliminated and Replaced With Chains?

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by 512Tea Are, Jan 26, 2008.

  1. 512Tea Are

    512Tea Are F1 Rookie

    Apr 22, 2004
    2,742
    Dear Comrade Ferraristii Brethren,

    The 360, 355, 348, 328, 308 ad nauseam has rubber bands driving the cam belts. The 430 has chains driving the cam shafts that do not require changing every five minutes. Amongst the erudite Ferraristi cognoscenti of this illustrious hot-bed Forum of thaumaturgical extravaganza is there anyone that can respond with alacrity regarding why the rubber bands have been dispensed with, please?

    With kind regards,

    512 Tea Are
     
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  3. jason bodington

    jason bodington Karting

    Jun 11, 2007
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    thats a mouth full!
     
  4. bert308

    bert308 Formula 3
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  5. 512Tea Are

    512Tea Are F1 Rookie

    Apr 22, 2004
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    Dear Comrade bert 308,

    If this is the case and the cam belt change is analagous in the way that you say, perhaps you will be kind enough to explain why it is that the cam belt change on a 512 TR takes three days and the total cost of the service normally exceeds four thousand pounds (eight thousand dollars) ?

    With kind regards,

    512 Tea Are
     
  6. bert308

    bert308 Formula 3
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    Well, they have to remove the engine on a TR but once it is out it is easy...
     
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  8. Tarek K.

    Tarek K. F1 Veteran

    Sep 7, 2006
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    A satisfactory and valid answer.
     
  9. 512Tea Are

    512Tea Are F1 Rookie

    Apr 22, 2004
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    Dear Comrade bert308,

    And of course the same analogy may be applied to the crankshaft, pistons, gudgeon pins, big end bearings. The mainshaft within the gearbox; the layshaft that lies adjacent, the springs and minuscule balls within the synchromesh hubs - ad nauseam.

    With kind regards,

    512 Tea Are
     
  10. bert308

    bert308 Formula 3
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    True gentlemen.
    On a Renault Modus when the front of the car is removed, then the headlight can be taken out, then changing the headlight bulb is easy. That is were my light bulb comment came from.
    I will shut up now and be heading for the nearby "pub" to get me some beers.
     
  11. Zarathustra

    Zarathustra Formula Junior

    May 7, 2006
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    Gary Robinson
    I wouldn't be surprised if Big Ferrari is actually listening and hearing its customers complain about the rubber bands.
    Especially since the chain driven Lambo Gallardo is taking customers away from Ferrari.
     
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  13. Sfumato

    Sfumato F1 Veteran

    Nov 1, 2003
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    Llanfairpwllgwyngyll, Anglesey, Wales
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    Angus Podgorney
    Ferrari had chains in 1947. All Colombos and Lampredis had chains.
    Question 1: Can you tell me the first Ferrari with a belt, and why they went to belts until recently?
    Question 2: When was the last road car with cam chains (prior to the current ones) built?
    Question 3: How many different factory recommended cambelt change intervals have there been?

    Chains are used again as chain technology has advanced greatly. Chains are single chain now, not double like old days. Chain tensioners are not much of an issue anymore (see 911 et al). Weight of chains and smaller size preferable to larger pulleys needed for belts these days. Chains are more durable than belts with high engine room temps seen these days.

    I've probably missed a few reasons. Gallardo sales (900 total Lambo sales in US) doubtful one of them. Probably the discounts.
     
  14. Sfumato

    Sfumato F1 Veteran

    Nov 1, 2003
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    Silence is deafening. Graham? Are you out there Major Tom?(Comrade Tom)
    Those are fun questions. C'mon guys.
     
  15. Ferrari 360 CS

    Ferrari 360 CS F1 Veteran
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    Dec 4, 2004
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    Dear Comrade.

    I think the answer to this rather common but interesting question is that over the last decade or so engine technology has moved on at such a rate that by the use of chains the manufacturer in this case Ferrari can make a substantially more compact powertrain unit and thus this will create a better method of packing the engine and its associated plumbing.

    Of other importance is rapid advancement of chain technology whereby the chain is far stronger and more durable that it used to be thus can withstand far more stress than was the case in the past.

    When discussing this very important matter one should bear in mind the multitude of possible reasons some of which might be unknown to us the mere mortals of the earth.

    Regards
     
  16. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
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    Dec 10, 2003
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    Sfu..


    If I had to guess, I'd say 308GT4 was 1st to get belted.

    The 246GT has cam chains. Guessing the next one in line was first to have belts.

    Oh, and this belongs in Ferrari general topic so OFF IT GOES.

    DM
     
  17. hardtop

    hardtop F1 World Champ

    Jan 31, 2002
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    1. Can't say about race cars, but the first road car (I believe) was the 365BB followed closely by the 308 GT4.

    2. Was the Dino (1974)

    3. Lost count.

    Answer to the original question: The F430 sales brochure claims chains were adopted to make the overall motor package shorter. Sounds overly simplistic to me and I'd bet other factors were involved, but that's the official explanation.

    Dave
     
  18. Organiser

    Organiser Formula Junior

    Jan 13, 2004
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    Phil Haynes
    Dear Tea Are,

    Ferrari heard that you would be writing a post about F40 cambelt changes and thought that you would need something else to ramble on about!!! ;) :D

    Please give my best to Fergie when you see him.

    Best regards,
    Phil.
     
  19. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #16 Steve Magnusson, Jan 27, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  20. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #17 Steve Magnusson, Jan 27, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    But even these guys had a belt upgrade -- but the low wrap (not much more than 90 deg) on that crankshaft pulley gives me the willies. Almost looks like they intentionally left off the idler pulley on the LH side just to keep the belt length from being crazy.

    (Note on the chain set-up that all of the driving and driven gears have wrap angles of ~180 deg or more).
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  21. 512Tea Are

    512Tea Are F1 Rookie

    Apr 22, 2004
    2,742
    Dear Comrade Organiser,

    It was very good to hear form you. And yes, I shall pass on your kind sentiments to the illustrious Fergy tomorrow. I dare not proffer anything further, but, Fergy is in possession of something that is truly unbelievable. Even by Fergy's standards of supremity this is something quite, quite staggeringly magnificent. No doubt the revelation will be made in due course :)

    All good wishes.

    With kind regards,

    512 Tea Are
     

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