Don't Ignore - Case for 348 belt change

3 years is ridiculous...I think 5 is a good conservative estimate...my faliure was due to a freak tensioner bearing failure...my timing belt was probably fine...I'll eliminate that problem with an upgraded set of tensioner bearings...

 

Not too many aftermarket products I am crazy about but the Hill tensioner and idler bearings are outstanding parts.

 

Hi,

The car was registered on the 13-7-94 and the first and only service in the book was done at 10,004kms (6,250 miles) on the 28-11-94. It has no paperwork for any other work being done to it!! The car so I was told (LOL) had been serviced just prior to me buying it, mileage then was 97,467 kms (Nov 2004). I bought the car from Kuwait, I had it on a ramp at the Ferrari dealers out there, took it for a test drive and paid for it. The car drives very well and the only problem prior to the plastic covers breaking was an inner driveshaft rubber boot split when I was in Italy for 3 weeks in 2005 the mileage driven in that time was 7,500 kms about 5,000 miles, total reading is now 111,071 kms (68,500 + miles). It has been driven in rain, hail, sleet and snow and on salty roads since coming to the UK so yes its very dirty, oily and covered in sand!!

Tex, yes I don`t think they use antifreeze in Kuwait (50c) in the summer, it needs all the rads and the engine flushing out, etc, etc.

So as not highjack Jagbuffs thread I will post the rest of the pictures of it coming out of the car in a new thread.

Regards,
Phil.

 

Yes - that the one!

 

Brian, what is your opinion of the upgraded water pump bearing that the guy on Ebay is selling...

 

Sorry I have no idea who or what you are talking about. To give you my general feeling though If he will warranty it for one year and pay me to do a valve job on your car if it fails I might be interested but only then if I have very good reason to feel it is a good product. That is the warranty I get from Ferrari, I will not trade it off for a few bucks. I have collected on Ferrari's warranty several times. I only use oil filters, timing belts and a variety of other parts with the horsie on them because Ferrari not only will but has backed up those parts with their money.

 

This guy apparently is well known, because other Fchatters here have used his stuff before. He offers a 2 year warranty but says nothing about valve jobs or anything in his ad...heres the ad in case you or anyone else is interested....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ORIGINAL-FERRARI-348-WATER-PUMP-2YR-WARRANTY-NO-RESERVE_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ42606QQihZ013QQitemZ230079558389QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

 

Just remember you are installing a part that will cost you big if it goes south.

 

Yup. It's fair to make that point.

On the other hand, we're talking about generic bearings and seals that are going into a Ferrari housing...whether Ferrari installs them or someone else presses them in may not make a lot of difference at the mechanical level (though a notable difference at the warranty level).

I've got the eBay waterpump in my 348, and have had no problems with it over the past year (this is my daily driver). The general rule for bearing-related parts is that they shouldn't have any play in them and that they shouldn't leak or make any noise when you turn them.

Pretty basic stuff. The eBay 348 waterpump passes those simple tests (and it uses the stock Ferrari waterpump housing).

The Jordan Company has a pretty good reputation for European waterpump rebuilds, which is probably where the eBay guy gets his 348 waterpumps rebuilt.

If you go directly to Dick Jordan, the 348 waterpump rebuild with new bearings and seals is $99 with a 2 day turn-around. Buy it from eBay for $229.

Or pay Ferrari for their warranty. At this point that's the most obvious difference.

Anyway, if the eBay pump fails then I'll let everyone know. I can't imagine that it would fail on anyone sooner than me, as I've got it on my daily driver and I've had it in use for a year now.

My thinking is that if I'm replacing the waterpump every 3 to 5 years at each Major Service, that the cheapo model is the way to go. If the waterpumps were supposed to last longer, then I might be more concerned, but tossing them out every few years makes them pretty disposable.

And if I'm wrong then everyone else will know before it's likely a problem for them...but if you're going to go this route you might as well contact Dick Jordan and save $130.


***

Now, what's going to be interesting is whether or not the upgraded Hill Engineering tensioner/bearings should be replaced as often as OEM (i.e. at every Major Service).

Obviously the cost of each future 348 Major Service would be less if those are safely good for more than 5 years (now that I've got them installed).

 

Hi ND,

Have you got an e-mail address for Dick Jordan or website as I don`t want to ring him from the UK if I can help it.

Keep up the good work!!

Regards,
Phil.

 

Ha! I don't think that he's on-line in any way, shape, or form. In any event, this is all that I've got for him:
Dick Jordan,
7105 Fountainbleau Road, Ocean Springs, MS. 39564
(228) 872-0855 European Waterpump Specialists

 

I fitted one of his water pumps to my 355 last week. Two years warranty as well. Although on a 355 its not the same lay out as a 348 of course.
I cant say that i agree with the theory of would the guy pay for an engine rebuild should the the pump fail on a 348. I also use the Hills tensioner bearings, and i dont expect him to foot the bill if his bearings were to fail.
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Right. As an "unknown" it's a safer purchase for a 355 owner. For one thing, OEM new Ferrari 355 waterpumps have a track record here on F-Chat of failing with as little as 8,000 miles (e.g. 285Ferrari's), and for another the 355 waterpump isn't driven by the 355's timing belts.

But even on the 348 where the timing belt *does* drive the waterpump, replacing them every 3 to 5 years at the Major Service makes them pretty darn disposable.

Why pay $800 to $1,000 for OEM waterpumps that are known to fail with as little as 8,000 miles, when you can pay $229 for the eBay waterpump that so far has no record of failures?!

...especially when you are replacing the units every 3 or so years regardless of mileage?!


The main argument against the cheapo waterpumps is not quality, but the warranty. Ferrari will pay for consequential damages.

To me, that's what you have for choices: el cheapo with very little warranty or Ferrari with a proven warranty for consequential damages...so your higher Ferrari OEM price delivers something more than the el cheapo waterpump: the warranty.

 

Yes i can see how the design on the 348 pump and belt system is a bad one. So would ferrari pay for damage of an engine if a 348 water pump fails?? Has anyone on here had any damage repaired and paid for by ferrari?
At least with the 355 unit there is no real drama if it fails, providing ya stopped the car straight away.

 

Honestly, the 348 *probably* isn't going to burn through the cam belt if the waterpump fails (presuming you stop the darn car when you notice the smoke, squeal, and noise).

If you look over at TMobileguy's "348 Stopped Runing on the Highway" thread, you'll see that someone was driving his car for some fair amount of time *after* his tensioner bearing locked up...and that didn't even burn completely through his belt.

His entire tensioner bearing locked up, then got so hot it came completely off of his motor and melted itself into his cam belt cover! It takes some time for a belt to rotate around a locked tensioner so much that it heats up the tensioner that much.

But...would Ferrari pay for consequential damages? They have in some cases in the past, I'm told (approved mechanic/shop, OEM parts, etc.).

So I think that it's fair to say that you are getting something extra for your money if you go with the OEM waterpump rather than the cheapo unit that I bought.

You get at least a 1 year warranty (that in some cases may cover consequential damages).

Is that warranty worth 10 times ($1,000 OEM) the Dick Jordan rebuild price ($99)? Your call.

Rebuilding a 348 top end is going to cost $6k or more, after all.

 

I was under the impression that the inner race seperated from the outer race of the bearing as it was spinning...and the rpms are what caused the heat and melting into the cover....not the bearing locking up....although, if the bearing had locked up, wouldnt the pressure from the belt on the outer race of the bearing be the force that breaks the outer race of the bearing apart from the inner race...and if that happened, the belt wouldn't be slipping on the race and causing heat....it would just let go since the bearing would fall apart rather fast...

What are the symptoms of waterpump bearing that locks up...does it give warning before the belt would burn up?

 

Beats me. If bearings are bearings then I'd expect a lot of noise prior to lock up (if it even locked up at all), and if locked up, then you aren't going to have water circulation through the rads, thus, she's going to get hot coolant, fast.

As long as all of that happens without burning up, slipping off, or breaking the cam belt, then you should have a few moments to shut down the engine without valves meetings pistons, I'd guess.