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348 Downshift into 2nd difficult

Discussion in '348/355' started by Ron B., Sep 15, 2020.

  1. Ron B.

    Ron B. Rookie

    Aug 11, 2020
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    Ron B.
    Hi

    I just took possession of a 1993 348TS Speciale and I love it! I did notice however that if I am in 3rd gear at about 3300 to 3500 RPM and wanting to downshift into second gear, it’s difficult the shifter doesn’t go in you need to use significant force. If I bring rpm to 2500 it goes into 2nd gear much easier.

    I’m just wanting to know if other drivers have experience the same thing and if this is normal.

    Thanks
     
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  3. tres55

    tres55 Formula 3
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    Does double clutching help?
     
  4. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

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    #3 greyboxer, Sep 16, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020
    Or to ask the question another other way: will it easily go into 2nd from 1st when cold - with every manual Ferrari thats a good starting point as its usually very difficult - there are multiple threads about subsequent possibilities which might be a simple as new car so clutch foot not perfectly aligned to fully disengage
     
  5. A348W

    A348W Formula 3
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    Jun 28, 2017
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    Never force it!

    As said above into 2nd is a “traditional” difficult trait of cars of this vintage; especially when cold.

    Assuming the engine and gear box are suitably warm (I don’t use 2nd until it’s all warm and just short shift) then as said above double declutching on the down shift properly.

    If you’ve tried all the above, worth getting it looked at.
     
  6. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Rookie
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    #5 Ferrarium, Sep 16, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020
    The oil used drastically changes the characteristics and alters what gears hare harder or softer. I used Amsoil severe gear and 2nd was useless even when warm. I switched to Spirax and now even second shifts when cold. I hear MTL works the best but I went with the spec which is Spirax. Generally speaking if your coming form modern gear boxes and your expecting that, you may be well advised to lower the expectations.
     
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  8. Ron B.

    Ron B. Rookie

    Aug 11, 2020
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    Ron B.
    I tried double clutch ie. release and push in again....no change.
     
  9. Ron B.

    Ron B. Rookie

    Aug 11, 2020
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    Ron B.
    Yes it will go into 2nd fairly easy from 1st.
     
  10. Ron B.

    Ron B. Rookie

    Aug 11, 2020
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    Ron B.
    I plan on taking the car in for some minor things like handbrake adjustment etc. I will have them look at this. I’m unsure which oil was used. I use to have a similar problem in my 2006 Porsche 911 and double clutch usually helped.
     
  11. Ron B.

    Ron B. Rookie

    Aug 11, 2020
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    I have also searched and Redline 75W-90NS is highly recommend for difficult shifts.
     
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  13. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic Formula 3
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    Did you blip the throttle in-between?
     
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  14. Ron B.

    Ron B. Rookie

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    Ron B.
    Yes I tried that as well, it doesn't help.
     
  15. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Rookie
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    Definitely try different oil before people monkey with the linkage. Most folks have no idea how to adjust those, if you must then find a shop with a guy who's been working on Ferrari's since the 80's or 90's. Many shops guys started in 05 or what not, they have never even seen 348's, it WILL get jacked up worse.

    Some oils made my 1st gear a breeze and second a bear and some made first tough and second a breeze and some affected 5th and some affected pulling GB out of gear, some nicked teeth constantly going into 3rd etc. Unfortunately not all carts respond to the oil the same. It's the he beauty of hand built vintage cars I suppose.

    Good luck!
     
  16. GTO Joe

    GTO Joe Formula Junior
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    What Eric says above about the variances between cars and between oil is so true. I didn't know what oil was in my box when I purchased it and the only issue I had was the usual cold 2nd gear. When I had my first engine out I went with the Redline NS and I had major problem with 2nd (all the time) but also getting into 5th. I drained that and went with Redline Shockproof that was recommended on here. That move helped but didn't cure it completely. After reading about the negative effects of Shockproof I drained that and went with the MTL that Rifledriver recommended. That has got me to an acceptable level but I still have some problems getting 5th sometimes which I think is adjustment which will be addressed in the next engine out that is coming shortly. Not an easy solution for sure for most of us.
    One final thought. I am very fortunate to have a 996tt (6 speed) and a C7 Vette (7 speed) and both models have well documented write-ups on their respective boards about issues getting into 2nd when cold, different brands of trans oil to use, replacement shifter controls etc. so it's not just F cars with this issue. The Porsche has a heavy notch getting second as well as a jumping out of gear matter that costs more to repair than an average engine out for us and the Vette grinds going into 2nd (which GM says is normal). Go figure.o_O
     
  17. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Rookie
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    SHELL SPIRAX S5 ATE 75W90 has really just great. Rifledriver says MTL is better than SPIRAX. Except were not "supposed" to use MTL in our boxes but Rifledriver you can, I forget but something about the additives and the type of gears or material of syncros which does not apply to the 348. One can search for it it our here a few times. He would definitely know. In the end I went with what the mfg says after ShineKen I think it was tried it and said it was far better than RedlineNS. It has changed how I feel about driving the car the Amsoil made the car essentially a misery to drive.
    Yes, Redline is clear stating Shockproof should not be used with a GB with an internal pump or so I recall reading.
     
  18. 348Jeff

    348Jeff Formula 3
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    I used to have an awful gearchange on my car but it's just fine now :)

    First thing I tried was changing the oil to the "non" recommended oil that gave a good improvement so I didn't have to "warm the box up"

    https://www.clubscuderia.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?45388-348-DIY-quot-Restoration-quot&p=742892#post742892


    The other major step forward was to lubricate the fearchange cables...again a good step forward

    https://www.clubscuderia.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?45388-348-DIY-quot-Restoration-quot&p=765726#post765726

    Finally I did a full brake/clutch fluid change and bleed which was the icing on the cake. Car now has a great gerachange that works from the word go :) Must of cost me about £20 for the brake fluid and the lubricant.
     
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  19. Ron B.

    Ron B. Rookie

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    Ok I finally got it shifting better, I wasn’t pumping the throttle enough and clutching/gear quick enough. So double clutching help a lot.

    So is this normal? I plan on putting in redline oil anyways. Perhaps it will help without needing to double clutch to get a better 2nd gear shift.
     
  20. 348Jeff

    348Jeff Formula 3
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    It's "normal" for a car that not's working properly! ;-')

    At the moment your just trying compensate for a fault that needs addressing. If your gearchange improves once the box is "armed up" then suspect the oil, if it does it all the time then try the cables/bleeding clutch. Preferable do all 3 I mentioned in my post then report back :)
     
  21. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic Formula 3
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    It is not normal. Different oil may improve it but, if it doesn't, it would mean that your 2nd gear synchro-ring is probably worn since with double-clutch, which does what a synchro-ring is supposed to do, you have easy shift.

    You may decide to live with it. After all, double clutching impresses the audience. I often do it even though not necessary. The ultimate skill with double clutching is to blip the throttle with your heel while braking with your toe.
     

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