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348 Downshift into 2nd difficult

Discussion in '348/355' started by Ron B., Sep 15, 2020.

  1. 348Jeff

    348Jeff Formula 3
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  3. steved033

    steved033 F1 Rookie
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    Steve D.
    ah...S5. I found S4, I found S6...

    sjd
     
  4. GTO Joe

    GTO Joe Formula Junior
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    OK "Mr Ferrarium" you convinced me that the Shell oil is the best so I found a place in GB that repackages the stuff in 5L jugs so I ordered a jug (approx $125 all in plus any duty I may get hit with). I have tried all of the "recommended" Red Line stuff starting with Non Shock to Shock (both really bad) and then to NS which is the best but not back to what I had when I bought the car 6 years ago. Wish I knew what was in there before I got the car so while I am close with the NS we will see what this does. I am due for a change so timing is good. :D
     
  5. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2002
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    Jeff B.
    Two things that I remember about the shifter on my "long gone" 348:

    1) The rubber boot under the shift gate got jammed out of place, keeping the lever from moving smoothly (into 2nd?). Easy to relocate.

    2) I found that a quarter had fallen through the shift gate and become lodged where it didn't belong, the linkage had worn a substantial groove into it. Easy to fix, shifted much better afterwards.

    Might be worth a quick look...
     
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  7. 348Jeff

    348Jeff Formula 3
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    On earlier cars there's a sponge in there which gets jammed up - if your reverse lights briefly flick on when changing into 2nd then that will be your problem! LOL

    I too the sponge out and replaced with the rubber boot
     
  8. Huskymaniac

    Huskymaniac Karting
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    Has anyone tried the relatively new Redline MT-LV? I switched from Superlight Shockproof to 75W95NS based on what I read here but the shifts got much harder. So I am considering MTL, also based on stuff I read here. MT-LV looks like it is just an even lighter version of MTL. Obviously, at some point, one needs to worry about maintaining film on the gears and other surfaces. But, from what I understand, thinner is better for shifting. My instinct says that a blend of thinner gear oil like MTL or MT-LV with a little Shockproof might be the best of both worlds. But one still has the concerns associated with shockproof and I read something about the blend turning into green goo.
     
  9. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Rookie
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    #33 Ferrarium, Apr 9, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2022
    Shell spirax along with lubing shift cables and lever box solved my 2nd gear issue. Even cold shifts are pretty good.
    When all else fails try what the factory recommends. Sure work for my car.

    Sent using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  10. Huskymaniac

    Huskymaniac Karting
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    Can you provide some guidance on lubricating the cable and lever box?
     
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  12. Ferrarium

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  13. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Rookie
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    BTW is very easy to do.. Maybe easiest thing I have done. Also sort of enjoyable.:)
     
  14. Huskymaniac

    Huskymaniac Karting
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  15. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Rookie
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    Nah nothing to it.
     
  16. Huskymaniac

    Huskymaniac Karting
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    #39 Huskymaniac, Apr 10, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2022
    On the topic of fluids, I did a little digging and found something interesting. First, the new MT-LV is indeed very low viscosity. It is basically a straight 75W oil. The concern with using that is how it responds at high temperature. Track guys or folks in the south shouldn't even consider it.

    MT-LV:
    Vis @ 100°C, CSt 6.5
    Vis @ 40°C, CSt 29.8
    Viscosity Index 175

    Next up is the infamous MTL which is 75W80:
    Vis @ 100°C, CSt 10.4
    Vis @ 40°C, CSt 50.8
    Viscosity Index 201

    BIG jump there. Next is the MT-85 which is 75W85:
    Vis @ 100°C, CSt 12
    Vis @ 40°C, CSt 62
    Viscosity Index 198

    Next we have MT-90 which is 75W90:
    Vis @ 100°C, CSt 15.5
    Vis @ 40°C, CSt 82
    Viscosity Index 200

    Lastly, we have 75W90NS:
    Vis @ 100°C, CSt 15.6
    Vis @ 40°C, CSt 89
    Viscosity Index 185

    The important number for cold shifting is the viscosity at 40C. However, even 40C is "warm". So the viscosity index matters too. The MT-LV will get really thin above 100C and will get thicker, faster, as you drop below 40C. I'm not loving it. As you all know, 75W90 is what is specified. If you track the car or drive hard or drive in extreme heat, you really should stick with that. For those of us in cold climates, where shifting is harder, I don't think it is a big deal to go thinner. This is Redline after all! For reference, the SAE specifications for 75W90 is >=13.5 CSt at 100C. So, for those who want to be "by the book" but as thin as possible, you want 13.5 at 100C. You see above that this lies between MT-85 and MT-90. This is where it gets interesting. After a little digging, I found the specs of Superlight Shockproof oil.

    Superlight Shockproof:
    Vis @ 100°C, CSt 13.9
    Vis @ 40C, CSt 71.6
    Viscosity Index 202

    Many people have claimed that this oil is better than 75W90NS for shifting and, I think it makes sense. But if you don't want to run the stuff for other reasons, you can still get to 13.5 by blending MTL and MT-90 or MT-85 and MT-90. If you use three (because you are not a chemist with access to precise measuring equipment) quarts of MT-90 and top off the remainder (1.227 quarts) with MTL, you get:

    Vis @ 100°C, CSt 13.8
    Vis @ 40°C, CSt 71.1
    Viscosity Index 201

    Well, that looks awfully close to Superlight Shockproof! Hmmmmmm.

    For me, I am going to use a gallon of MTL and top off (0.227 quarts) with some of the 75W90NS I have. That blend gets me:

    Vis @ 100°C, CSt 10.6
    Vis @ 40°C, CSt 52.3
    Viscosity Index 198

    For those who are curious, if you blend 2 quarts of MT-85 and the balance (2.227 quarts) of MT-90, you get the following:

    Vis @ 100°C, CSt 13.7
    Vis @ 40°C, CSt 71.7
    Viscosity Index 198
     
  17. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Veteran
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    Unfortunately, as we know, Shockproof is not recommended by Redline for the F355. Can we assume this is the same for the F348?
     
  18. AceMaster

    AceMaster Three Time F1 World Champ

    Feb 6, 2009
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    Sorry to say this, but this is awful advice. The sponge does not cause a difficult shift.
     
  19. Ferrarium

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    Superlight Shockproof is not recommended for gearboxes with internal oil pump, that's from Redlines site. People use it but I would not. Just try the recommended SHELL SPIRAX S5 ATE 75W90 and stop looking for some secret boutique cocktail blend. :)
     
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  20. vvassallo

    vvassallo F1 Veteran

    Aug 4, 2006
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    Vince V
    I have a 1993 348 SS as well. When downshifting from 3rd to 2nd, I do more than blip the throttle; I try to match the revs I think I am goin to be in after the shift. After all, that's why it's called rev matching, eh? Barring that, I let the synchros take a second or two before engaging 2nd. You are not driving a modern manual trans, and it's old. Treat it like the senior citizen it is. Don't rush the shift, but definitely match your revs.
     

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