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Drifting................???

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by kizdan, Jun 24, 2004.

  1. kizdan

    kizdan F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2003
    5,283
    USA
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    Dan
    I am seeing more and more articles on drifting, and quite frankly, I just don't get it. Is this supposed to be some form of racing?

    Has anyone seen a drifting event?

    Comments...........?
     
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  3. Apex

    Apex Rookie

    Dec 1, 2003
    44
    Not RACING, but the next BIG THING!!!!

    If you can slide your car you can drift... Seems mostly ricers recoverring from the road race rage... Also seems mostly a left coast rage

    Promoted by tire companies, me thinks...
     
  4. Brian C. Stradale

    Brian C. Stradale F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 17, 2002
    3,603
    Dallas, TX, USA
    LOL. Its not racing... its not even properly called "drifting" in racing circles... but it is a form of motorsport... kind of like figure skating versus speed skating in the Olympics.

    BTW, in racing circles, drift is caused by torquing the tires such that the tread is moving a different direction than the wheel... and that is where the tire has max traction... minimal sliding involved.

    In the sport of Drifting, they are talking about major controlled sliding... serious intentionally-induced power oversteer. The trick is to stay in control of that sliding for as long and as big as possible. Not fast at all... just "cool looking". As a sport, it fits well with relatively poor-handling RWD huge horsepower cars.
     
  5. Aureus

    Aureus Formula 3

    Being somewhat of a drifter...

    Drifting is: Controlled Oversteer. Thats a nice simple way to put it. Basically just sliding your tail out, and keeping it out as long as possible. In no way is drifting based on speed, it is entirely judged on style, finesse and how close the driver gets to the wall (closer is better, as long as he doesn't hit). At least, in professional drifting. Non-professional drifting is basically just having fun trying to slide your read-end around corners instead of trying to follow what would be the racing line.

    You are right, the japense tire companies are big-time supporters of the events. :D
     
  6. 4i2fly

    4i2fly Formula 3

    Apr 16, 2004
    1,330
    SF, Bay Area
    There may be more of it in the left coast but it really started from the land of rising sun, way way east.
     
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  8. GoFerrari28

    GoFerrari28 Formula 3

    Jun 16, 2004
    2,242
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    Jeff Spicoli
    Drifting is to racing as water ballet is to 100 meter swim competition.
     
  9. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Social Subscribed Miami 2018 Owner

    Dec 1, 2000
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    Almost looks like this Jordan was drifting, but was really just coming back from a spin.
     
  10. Mike360

    Mike360 F1 Rookie

    Feb 18, 2004
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    Sydney, Australia
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    Mike
    Nice pic with that Jordan!
    Drifitng has been happening up in the Mountain Roads on Japan for quite a long time, possibly even from as early as the 70's. In Japan, these "drift" battles are named Touge (Pronounced "Toe-Gay"). It's only popular in the U.S now through opportunistic marketing and through such movies and television series as "Initial-D", with i am a fan of.
    A speak often with Japanese Guys in Japan, and a few of them think that drifting has taken a new direction these days. Today, car's can be seen with big turbos, huge wings and wild bodykits. But the original drift cars consisted of old rattly 2.0L corrolas and treuno's, and of course, the 2WD GTR. Mostly based on driver skill back then than today. I have more respect for those guys.........

    People in Japan never wanted Touge to be a big thing, or for it to be even considered a motorsport. Real drifting is on mountain roads, not on a track.
     
  11. Mr Payne

    Mr Payne F1 Rookie

    Jan 8, 2004
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    Actually, I think drifting requires relatively well handling cars. Of course, they aren't set up for maximum grip (they have gradual breakaway), but can definitely scoot around a track very fast if setup correctly.
     
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  13. Mike360

    Mike360 F1 Rookie

    Feb 18, 2004
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    I disagree.
    The main trait with current drifter cars is Mid-High power. Using bigger turbos allows for that "Kick" that can be used to snap the back out in a corner. Drifter car's are quite possibly the worst handling cars you know of. The only time that they handle good is sideways at low-mid speeds..
    If they are setup correctly, then they still are a pig.
    Huge Turbos = High lag, snappy throttle
    2 way LSD = Even low speed corners need opposite lock!
    -4 Camber = Understeering on low speed corners

    Their only a few traits of a drift car which would make it hard to race normally. Fair enough you could change alot, but then it wouldnt be a drift car would it?
     
  14. Gilles27

    Gilles27 F1 World Champ

    Mar 16, 2002
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    What I don't like about drifting, other than it's boring, is the fact that there are judges. Other than Alpine events, the presence of judges to me is the first disqualifier as to whether something is or isn't a sport.
     
  15. Mr Payne

    Mr Payne F1 Rookie

    Jan 8, 2004
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    Drifting cars generally have a reasonable turbo size. High lag does not benefit them as much as you would think because they can and will initiate drifts simply with weight transfer and steering input (I've heard that you actually get points deducted in the D1 league by using power oversteer to initiate drifts). High lag is also bad because a linear torque curve is needed to stay in control on longer drifts as one needs to use the throttle to turn. Camber is easily changed...(I was referring to this on my 'setup' remark in my last post). My knowledge on LSDs is questionable at best, so I'll take your word for it. I had previously heard that 1.5 way LSD is better than 2 way, but that it still handles well for a good driver(and certainly the professional drifters have mastered car control). You got my on the LSD, but my point is that things that benefit a well handling car generally also benefit a well drifting car (chassis rigidity, good steering, predictable nature, and even relatively high threshold for grip).

    Edit: It has come to my attention that some drifters use 1.5 way anyway...
     
  16. Mr Payne

    Mr Payne F1 Rookie

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    I agree, drifting is simply like an art. Not a sport at all. Subjectivity has no place in sports.
     
  17. Brian C. Stradale

    Brian C. Stradale F1 Rookie
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    Mar 17, 2002
    3,603
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    I agree with that... judged "sports" should be called "performing arts". But, that is not how the term is used, unfortunately. Half the Olympic sports would be performing arts.

    Similarly, "drifting" as used here should be called "sliding"... the racers' definition of "drifting" is very different... no sliding involved. But, again, that's not how the population has decided to use the terms. No use in fighting it.
     
  18. Mike360

    Mike360 F1 Rookie

    Feb 18, 2004
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    Some drifters use a 1.5 way, yes that's true. But alot use a 2-way.
    While you are correct that some of the principles that you mention do apply to drift cars, but they really handle like a pig when they are doing anything but drifting. Drift cars suspension is set up so hard...there really is not the amount of grip that you think there is. In fact, most of them bounce around and end up kicking sideways when circuit racing with other cars. Not all drift cars are the same, as most are set up to the drivers preference. But i can tell you that the car power delivery is anything but linear. Alot of them have big turbo setups as they need the power to overcome grip at high speed. While in a drift, most drivers are flat anyways.
    One of my business partners bought an ex-drifter from Japan about a year ago, when the craze was fresh here in Aus. His car handled so badly when circuit racing, my subaru made him look silly. And to think about driving that drift car in the wet, makes me shudder. BTW, is was an ex-D1 car.
    But when it kicked sideways, due to the turbo kick, it handled great though.
    Most of the cars seen at the D1 are true racing machines, but i won't believe that they handle good.
     
  19. Mr Payne

    Mr Payne F1 Rookie

    Jan 8, 2004
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    All of the drifting cars I've heard of reach full boost below 4K rpm...That does not seem like a high lag situation. I've never really heard of drifting cars with over 420rwhp with more being around 350rwhp. That is not that high a number and a "large" turbo is really not needed to achieve it (even for small displacement Japanese engines), especially since they are undoubtedly going to be running race gas. Naturally aspirated cars seem to be fine with drifting.....I'm not sure why this lag thing is even an issue.

    As far as stiffness goes...that is relatively easy to change...

    My friend wants to show me a video of some D1 cars, in D1 trim running around Tsukuba and putting down some pretty fast laps...
     
  20. zff

    zff Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    145
    Hawaii
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    Ken
    Yeah, the perversion of the term "drifting" really bugged me at first too. But then look at all the other words like that... "shock absorber", "sway bar", "spoiler", "ground effects", "rims"... or one from my industry, "bandwidth".

    Just gotta learn to evolve with the language, I guess.
     

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