Buy

458 Engine Failure from Stickers Blocking Oil Pump Intake

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by zone1, Oct 2, 2020.

  1. zone1

    zone1 Rookie

    Feb 9, 2018
    42
    SF Bay
    Just saw this video from FerrParts Instagram account.

    https://www.instagram.com/tv/CF2sgQdJQfX/?igshid=606dkmx4miar

    They've had multiple engines with this failure apparently. The plastic sticker on the cam solenoid rubs off and works its way into the oil pump where it plugs up the oil pump intake screen. This eventually leads to oil starvation issues and causes engine failure.

    Has anyone had this happen before? I wonder if removing valve covers to check if the sticker is still on the solenoid is worth doing as part of a PPI?
     
  2. To remove this ad click here.

  3. MalibuGuy

    MalibuGuy F1 Veteran

    Sep 18, 2007
    5,059
    I haven’t seen this problem myself
    However, I’m astounded at the number of these paper/ plastic part stickers which are found all over and inside the car.
    WTF are the Factory workers told to leave them on or are they just so lazy that they can’t be bothered to remove them when they install the parts.

    someone tell me what is what with all these stickers
     
  4. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    May 21, 2006
    6,745
    West Coast
    Full Name:
    Ray Johns
    Yeah, that's wild.

    My first car was a '66 mustang and on that car, the valve stem seals would dry up, crack and fall down into the oil pan. On my particular motor, they somehow managed to edge their way around the sump screen and ended up getting sucked up into the oil pump - which caused it to seize. The distributor drive shaft kept turning of course, which resulted in it breaking and the oil pressure going to zero.

    This wouldn't have caused an engine failure under normal circumstances, but it happened to occur while my little sister was driving the car home from school. Needless to say, this was the first motor I ever rebuilt :)

    I wonder if there is anyway to remove the rubber grommet around the solenoids and slip a small camera or something down in there and pull them out?

    Ray
     
  5. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    May 21, 2006
    6,745
    West Coast
    Full Name:
    Ray Johns
    I think this sort of stuff is just symptomatic of a large company where nobody is paying attention to the small details. As I've mentioned several times before on here, I was amazed at the number of small sloppy oversights I saw on both the 458 and 488 during assembly. It's pretty clear based on the stuff I saw that either people on the line aren't really paying attention and/or things are moving too quickly to be properly assembled.

    Growing pains for a company that is going from producing a relatively small number of cars to now wanting to produce far larger numbers and many more models.

    Also, having worked on a few Ferraris, I am always shocked at how terrible much of the design is (as far as building things with ease of assembly in mind). I think everyone at Ferrari needs to take a field trip to a Toyota factory and see how they design cars to make building them on the assembly line more straightforward.

    But yeah, those labels inside the motor are nuts.

    Ray
     
  6. MalibuGuy

    MalibuGuy F1 Veteran

    Sep 18, 2007
    5,059
    The tag thing has been an issue since at least my first Ferrari —a 2003 360 Modena.
     
  7. To remove this ad click here.

  8. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    May 21, 2006
    6,745
    West Coast
    Full Name:
    Ray Johns
    Very interesting!

    Ray
     
  9. turbokraft

    turbokraft Rookie

    Jun 10, 2019
    34
    Full Name:
    Johnathan David Adams
    Thank you for posting.
     
  10. ferrarifam

    ferrarifam Karting

    Jun 9, 2020
    92
    Utah, USA
    Full Name:
    Adam
    Why would Ferrari not change this system if it caused even a handful of issues that were documented is beyond me. Is there any recourse you can take with Ferrari if this happens to you?
     
  11. MalibuGuy

    MalibuGuy F1 Veteran

    Sep 18, 2007
    5,059
    I think the next time you bring your car into the service center, ask them to remove any unecessary tags in the engine bay .

    This will tidy up your car and at least create a written record of your request in your service history.

    I believe the service center might give feedback to the factory that owners are annoyed by this appearent
    oversight.

    I intend to do so.
     
  12. To remove this ad click here.

  13. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    May 21, 2006
    6,745
    West Coast
    Full Name:
    Ray Johns
    You realize the tag is inside the motor right?

    Ray
     
  14. MalibuGuy

    MalibuGuy F1 Veteran

    Sep 18, 2007
    5,059
    #11 MalibuGuy, Oct 6, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2020
    Yes.
    That’s why I suggested to make this a part of the service record.

    The burden and responsibility would rest on the service center to follow up with the factory. And if your car was unlucky and did have these labels and did develop a problem, then you could argue the point.


    And there are a bunch of labels on other parts inside the engine bay which I’ve discovered and some of them I’ve been able to remove myself. Some of those labels were partially blackened due to the heat which made me worry about f**e risk too.

    (To be honest I’ve never heard of this happening before. Could this be a case of mistaken causality)
     
  15. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    May 21, 2006
    6,745
    West Coast
    Full Name:
    Ray Johns
    It's crazy to me that any engine builder would leave adhesive labels - of any sort - inside any part of a motor.

    Ray
     
  16. MalibuGuy

    MalibuGuy F1 Veteran

    Sep 18, 2007
    5,059
    Sorry didn’t explain myself well in my posts. Yes I’ve seen labels. No have never seen nor even imagined that stickers or labels are being left inside the engine.

    it would be hard to suggest that Ferrari service should open the engine to see if you are an unlucky soul with stickers inside the engine.

    However, it doesn’t mean you cannot discuss what you e read about. And if your engine bay has some labels, then get the center to remove them and document both the request and their removal.

    But I have no experience in how best to handle this.

    If others do, please chime in.
     
  17. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    May 21, 2006
    6,745
    West Coast
    Full Name:
    Ray Johns
    From what I saw in the video, it appears the labels are on some sort of solenoid, which is located just under the valve cover. Removing the valve covers to inspect wouldn't be a huge job, but it's not like changing the pollen filter either. Also, I personally am not a fan of having the dealer mess around my my car after the factory built it.

    I was actually wondering if you could slip a small inspection camera in there some how and see (or maybe grab at) the labels and pull them out. The other option might be to inspect the oil filter screen area (if it's something you can access) to see if the labels have made it down there.

    No matter how you slice it, it's crazy.

    Ray
     
  18. turbokraft

    turbokraft Rookie

    Jun 10, 2019
    34
    Full Name:
    Johnathan David Adams
    It would be crazy expensive for anyone without a warranty, consider that the tech claimed multiple examples and the age of the 458. Are we approaching the age where the sticker glue has failed due to oil exposure. Anyone know how difficult the oil pan is to remove? Might be easier than the v/c and could combine w/ oil service.
     
  19. sampelligrino

    sampelligrino Formula Junior

    Apr 16, 2017
    885
    Showed my service advisor the IG video and he said he's never seen this happen, and he asked another service advisor who said the same thing FWIW. The video was concerning. YMMV.
     
  20. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    May 21, 2006
    6,745
    West Coast
    Full Name:
    Ray Johns
    I'm guessing removing the oil pan would be somewhat time consuming, depending on how everything under there is situated. So is that video showing the sump area of the dry sump system?

    I vote we remove the pan on Sam's car and see what we find :)

    Ray
     
    sampelligrino likes this.
  21. sampelligrino

    sampelligrino Formula Junior

    Apr 16, 2017
    885
    lol
     
    RayJohns likes this.
  22. Tarek307

    Tarek307 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 26, 2018
    769
    Long Beach, CA & Alexandria,Egypt.
    Full Name:
    Tarek Salah
    this is insane, wow..
     
  23. Andy348

    Andy348 Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2007
    1,167
    Eastern Canada
    Full Name:
    Andy
    How difficult is it to remove the valve covers and see if the stickers are there / remove them if they are? Seems like a pretty straightforward process.
     
    bluesea likes this.

Share This Page