Engine oil and ZDDP

Solly - well said. Agree with everything in your post. And yes, the cars of the 1980s forward are remarkable with respect to reliability of engine components. If there are two unsung heros with respect to modern manufacturing of automobiles, it is the metallurgist and computer machining tools. Materials and tolerances lead to 100,000 mile tuneups, sparkplugs that live forever, cams that keep on giving, and pistons/rings that serve many generations of drivers before even a hint of compression fall-off.

Do you thing that a young mechanic has a clue as to what a rod knock sounds like? Has anyone experienced a bearing, crank, rod, or piston failure in a modern car? Never happens. Sure, pulleys go, water pumps fail, seals leak, but the fundamental engine just keeps on ticking. Kind of like asking a middle age doctor to describe smallpox. No one alive has ever seen a case!

Jim S.

 

Jim, I have been following this discussion with interest, I don't want to deviate from the subject, however, in the flavour of the discussion, scientific accuracy and to highlights the elements of surprise:
..........Janet Parker (1938 – Sept. 11, 1978) was the last known person to die from smallpox. Janet worked at the University of Birmingham UK Medical School and died after being exposed to the smallpox virus which was grown in a research laboratory, on the floor below the Anatomy department. There are those alive who have seen such horrors.........

We endeavour to follow science to determine optimum decisions, however, in the real world there is also a risk vs effort parameter. Regular oil change with good quality oil appears acceptable for most classic road cars.
Kevin

 

Actually, Kevin, my ben trovato comment did deviate from personal experience. I witnessed a case, non-fatal, while a resident in medicine at the Boston City Hospital in 1974. I remember my attending professor making such a deal of it, beseeching all of us to garnish ourselves with isolation clothing and enter the room to examine, albeit superficially, the skin lesions. His sage wisdom recognizing that few clinicians will ever see this disease remains imprinted in my mind today. As with most medical training, reading about something in the books is not as effective as experiencing it. To this day I remember that the most distinctive and important points of differentiation from chicken pox are 1) the progression of the rash (pox) from extremities to trunk...chicken pox usually begins on the trunk and progresses to the extremities, and 2) the pox (rash) of small pox all tend to be in the same stage of development, while chicken pox will manifest healing pox and new pox at the same time. If I had simply read this stuff and not seen it I would not remember it today.

The pedagogical approach to neurosurgeons and brain surgery...watch one, do one, teach one. Kind of like restoring Dinos.

Jim S.

 

Not black humor, simply the truth.

Jim S.

 

Black humor aside, I checked the M1 site as of 4/7/09, [How to get this thing to show up as a link?]

www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Files/Mobil_1_Product_Guide.pdf

the 0W-40 has 1100 ppm zinc and 1000 ppm phosphorus. The 15W-50 has 1300 ppm
zinc and 1200 ppm phosphorus.

I could do 5 quarts of one and 5 quarts of the
other to knock down the viscosity to a 7.5W-45, 1200 ppm of zinc and 1100 ppm of phosphorus.

The Merak SS specifies a 10W-50 oil. What do you all think?

Ciao,
George

 

what about Motul oil ? they have a classic motor oil that has ZDDP in it and it has a fairly good rep in Europe. I talked to Motul reps at Laguna Seca this weekend and they sure gave it a great sales pitch, convinced me its the very best oil on the planet but I did not come with any until I do some research, so anyone know about it ?

http://www.motorspotstore.com/mocloilsae50.html

 

I use Brad Penn 20w50 in my BB512i... www.bradpennracing.com

 

Hi Frank,

There are some issues with the Merak SS engine with high oil pressure on the main chain.
Therefore the 0W-40 is good in that respect and the ZDDP is at a respectable level. I did run it with the 15W-50 previously and oil pressure was high, but the ZDDP numbers look great on this oil. I suppose if you crank the engine a few times to circulate the oil prior to ignition you can effectively mitigate the negative effects of the high viscosity oil at start up. Then let the engine idle for a minute or two prior to driving to let the oil warm up.

Would it be reasonable to think that mixing the two would average out the numbers? I'll call the Mobil Q/A people and get their take on it or maybe Bob the Oil Guy.

Since the 206 & 246 engines share some similar characteristics to the 3.0 L Maserati C114 engine, I felt that valued suggestions/opinions could be voiced regarding oil and ZDDP.

Regarding the Brad Penn, I'll check it out.

Maybe we can hook up for a future mountain drive one of these months.

Thanks

Ciao,
George

 

In the days when the Dino was a daily driver in London, i used straight 30 oil and changed every 1500 miles. Filter every 3k. If using straight 30 did any damage, no way to tell.
Warm up was, 1500 rpm for 2mins. No choke ever. I changed that to less than a minute and an easy drive till water temp up. This was also the case for my My Alfa 2000.

Now with limited use, I would change oil every 1500 or 3 months.
I never worried about oil draining down to the sump and leaving surfaces unprotected, cause the car ran every day. Now it might be a week or two weeks.
So I am wondering if by 2013 there are any additives that are even worth talking about.
Zmax anyone?

 

I have been using Mobil1 15W-50 with the addition of GM EOS 1 pint (16 ounces) to every 16 quarts of oil. Mobil 1 15W-50 has a nominal phosphorus level of PPM 12000 with a Zinc level of PPM 1300 so it is sufficient but I like a little higher concentartion.
Updated from the Mobil website this month.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Here in El Salvador, Chevron Delo 400, has a higher Zinc concentration than Brad Penn, and
is cheap. I am assuming it has the same specs in the USA, and sells at all Costco stores.

Regards, Alberto

 

Castrol makes an excellent oil with high ZDDP levels and is readily available:

Castrol USA - EDGE 5W-50 with SYNTEC<br>Power Technology

I use it in my 308 with excellent results and the 246 is basically the same engine.

 

Sounds like it should answer most needs.
how do you measure " excellent results"

 

My excellent results are as follows are are purely subjective:

- No oil leaks from changing the oil
- Less time to register oil pressure compared to dino oil
- No oil consumption
- No notable side effects
- Engine seems to rev more freely

I have not done any scientific testing but given that Castrol is a good brand name product and that the ZDDP levels are above the mins that all the classic articles say, I feel confident in annual oil changes with this stuff especially as it is readily available where I live.

 

Rotella T6. 1275ppm zinc. Full synthetic. 5-40. $22/gal. GTS Bruce

 

From what date is that zinc spec?
Each version has less zinc than the one before and I believe the most recent only has about 1000, so I add enough EOS zinc to my T6 to raise it by about 300ppm.


It also depends where you buy the oil. I believe many Canadian and Euro formulations are different than US.

 

No oil leaks is a plus
I change my lawnmower oil once a year!
Do you use the car frequently?

 

My neighbor, John Klein, who is a long time classic car collector (Packards and Duesenbergs) was involved with the development of this oil by D-A Lubricant Company specifically for engines that need high zinc (ZDDP). This oil has 1600 ppm of ZDDP - there are some good articles on the website as well as the ability to purchase their oil (I have no affiliation - but have bought a few cases).

Classic Car Motor Oil

 

That's El Salvador.

 

Delo 400 now on sale at Costo $7.00 off.

 

George, that is good to know!

Is the USA Delo 400 equivalent in 3rd World? My assumption is affirmative, as it makes more sense to unify, yet, who uses it in the US?

3rd World has lots of old cars, thus a prime choice, contrary to the US where, even at 10 yrs. of age, have less of a need for zinc...

Regards, Alberto

 

Hi Alberto,
The ad just came in the mail and I haven't been to Costco to see if the data in on the container or to find out how much it cost. I'll let you know.
A lot of friends with older cars use Rotella, which is about $12.00/gal at Walmart.
Best regards,
George