355 - Engine Rebuild - Was supposed to only be a major | FerrariChat

355 Engine Rebuild - Was supposed to only be a major

Discussion in '348/355' started by Normal Guy Supercar, Oct 19, 2021.

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  1. Normal Guy Supercar

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    Sep 25, 2016
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    Daniel Hurlbert
    Hello F-Chatters!

    I'm sure many of you may have seen my channel Normal Guy Supercar, and some may already be aware of our current F355 project. But I figured it may be of interest even though it's nothing totally new, just another perspective.

    A quick back story - The F355 is not mine nor my company's. The owner of the car reached out to me for some help with selling his F355. It was 7 years since it's last major, and he had a buyer interested in it's as is condition. However with the current market conditions, the increased value in performing the major is almost guaranteed to increase the value more than the cost, especially if you can get the labor for cheap. So we agreed upon a deal in which we would do the major, and he would cut us in on the eventual sale.

    Once we got the car down to Austin, we ran some basic tests (essentially a PPI but without any purchasing) through my buddy Josh and his company Exotic Power & Performance. Well, Josh quickly determined that the engine was needing a lot more than a simple major, it's compression was both high and low indicating that not only were the valve guides bad, it likely had started to wash out the piston rings causing excessive compression. So we discussed this with the owner, and he agreed to move forward with a full engine rebuild.

    A quick qualifier - I am not a technician nor do I pretend to be, I'm a former software developer who just loves cars and knows enough how to do some stuff, but nothing crazy. So taking on an engine rebuild was a bit beyond my scope. Thankfully Josh agreed to help us out with the hard parts as I really don't want to screw up that engine, especially since it's not mine!

    So, here is part 9 of the series - and I wanted to start here because this is when we first really begin tearing the engine down. Y'all have probably seen tons of engine removals, but it's probably less common to see taking them down to the block. Also it shows what happens when the tensioner goes bad and the belts start to slack. This engine was pretty darn close to becoming a grenade!

    I'll have more videos for you as we tear it down and rebuild it.

    Enjoy!
     
    VAF84, GTuned, Clint 360 and 11 others like this.
  2. Targatime

    Targatime Formula 3

    Feb 22, 2014
    1,219
    Los Angeles
    Interesting. Are the tensioner bearings Hill or Ferrari? What kind of shape are they in? And how common is it that the tensioner itself freezes up? Haven't heard much about that.

    PS it's nice that you're giving Ron Jeremy something to do in retirement
     
  3. Normal Guy Supercar

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    I'll check out the parts next time I'm there and get back to you but I think they were OEM not Hill. We found that the arm for the tensioner was nearly seized up on both sides, it looks like the last major may have used anti-seize instead of grease on the bushing... That probably wasn't the best solution. You'll see in the next video. It's scheduled to publish on Saturday at 9am.
     
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  4. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
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    Jul 28, 2018
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    awesome, thanks!
     
  5. Targatime

    Targatime Formula 3

    Feb 22, 2014
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    Good stuff. I'm a fan of your channel.

    So what's the deal, is your friend going to make 355 manual conversion parts?
     
  6. Normal Guy Supercar

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    No, not at this time. You can still get OEM parts to convert a F355 without too much of a hassle.
     
  7. Rickenbach

    Rickenbach F1 World Champ
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    Have you made sure one of the spark plugs isnt cross-threaded?
     
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  8. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2001
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    Well, I can tell you guys are not 355 experts ... yet. It's a good thing you are waiting for the expert to strip it down.
     
  9. Normal Guy Supercar

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    The sum total of times I've torn apart a 355 engine before this is exactly 0.
     
  10. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    By the way, it is entirely normal for one belt to be tight while the other slack. It all depends on where the cam is at the moment. Why is it on a stand? Are you changing the liners too? A valve job can be done with the engine in the subframe.
     
  11. Normal Guy Supercar

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    It's not a valve job, we're pulling the Pistons and rings plus bearings.
     
  12. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Deep pocket customers... it's not going to be cheap.
     
  13. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Feb 20, 2015
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    Looks like a 5.2 car.

    Let me know if you need 5.2 wiring diagrams. You may need them when refitting the engine harness. It's not always clear what connectors go where, so you need to match the pins on the connectors to specific sockets on the Motronics ECU plug.
     
    OCKlasse likes this.
  14. Normal Guy Supercar

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    It is a 5.2. I may take you up on that.
     
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  15. INTMD8

    INTMD8 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 10, 2007
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    "washed out piston rings causing excessive compression"

    o_O
     
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  16. Normal Guy Supercar

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    When too much oil leaks past the valve guides it can cause oil build up in the cylinders above the bottom piston rings. This can cause them to expand or seal too tight causing excessive compression.
     
  17. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    There are a few counter-intuitive statements in part 1 of this YouTube series

     
  18. Normal Guy Supercar

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    Cool. I'm not perfect.
     
  19. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Counter-intuitive does not mean wrong .. it just means unexpected ;)
     
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  20. Targatime

    Targatime Formula 3

    Feb 22, 2014
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    Let's not play gotcha games with guys who make no pretenses about being professional mechanics. I think Daniel was trying to convey something his mechanic said about valve guide wear that I will translate here, because it is a real thing:

    There can be a phase early in valve guide wear when you get artificially high compression test results because oil seepage past worn guides enhances ring sealing without showing (yet) as leakage past the valve seats. That latter problem comes when guides are severely worn -- so badly they allow so much valve stem play in the guide that the valve head no longer seals against the valve seat, resulting in poor leakdown test results. But again, this was a comment about the early phase of guide wear, when they're leaking oil but not so worn there's excessive valve stem play.
     
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  21. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    So watching that a compression test alone does not convince me that the bottom end needs to be touched. But, it's not my car and I have no hands on it. So, my opinion is worthless. I do agree that the valve job is needed. Cyl 1 and 2 are almost always the bad ones. When the heads are off, you can see the liners and judge their conditions and decide.
     
  22. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    #22 Qavion, Oct 19, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2021
    I'm wondering if the engine was allowed to cool too much. During my car's PPI, all of my cylinders were in the 195 to 215 range and my tech said that was ok.

    If you see the earlier episodes, there is a professional tech working with Daniel, but my earlier comment was the very opposite of a criticism.

    However, I should comment on one safety issue in the earlier episodes where the tech says that the fuel pump doesn't prime on the 5.2 just by turning on the ignition. It does prime (according to the WSM), but it's a one shot affair and even if you cycle the ignition switch off and on it won't prime again. After that, the engine has to be cranked.

    I've been told that there is no schrader port for testing fuel pressure on the 5.2 and I couldn't find one on my car. Seems there are variations.
     
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  23. Normal Guy Supercar

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    If Ferrari is consistent about one thing, it's being inconsistent.
     
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  24. INTMD8

    INTMD8 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 10, 2007
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    The cylinders filled with oil due to wasted guides is not the same as washed out rings causing high compression.

    Either way, clear the cylinders of oil and do a leakdown/compression test is what I would do before making assumptions based on tests you think are not accurate.

    I mean sure, rebuild it if you want to but may not be at all necessary.
     
    john a barnes likes this.
  25. OCKlasse

    OCKlasse Formula Junior
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    CAV 430, ShineKen, WATSON and 2 others like this.

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