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Etiquette Question

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Grumpy B, Mar 28, 2008.

  1. Grumpy B

    Grumpy B Karting

    May 31, 2005
    183
    South Bay
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    Don
    Recently, I spotted a pf coupe in the middle of a resoration. It is not listed as a known car on the registry (or at least I didn't see it on the registry http://web.mac.com/ferrari250pfcoupe/250PFCoupe/Home.html ). Should I try to contact the owner of the car before passing on the information? Should I just give the information to the website owner? Do I just get pics?

    Not wanting to be to rude

    Grumpy B
     
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  3. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 6, 2002
    74,279
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    I'd go easy, as there are a number of Ferrari owners that like to be 'below the radar"...

    IMO, the only ones to be sharing the VIN of a car is the Owners themselves, for lots of reasons.....

    ...any of you others have thoughts??????
     
  4. ProCoach

    ProCoach F1 Veteran
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    Sep 15, 2004
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    +1000!

    As a former shop owner for over twenty-five years, I got into trouble early on when, in the interests of adding to "registries," I forwarded owner information. Bad news and not the right thing to do.

    The appropriate way is to approach the owner with the information and let them decide...
     
  5. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Veteran
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    Oct 16, 2007
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    I guess I would beg to differ to some degree. If the serial number is unknown or misapplied to another model then I see no issue with correcting that it is a "found" car.

    I do agree that divulging the details on the current ownership and specific location is at the discretion of the owner.

    Jeff
     
  6. Grumpy B

    Grumpy B Karting

    May 31, 2005
    183
    South Bay
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    Don
    Okay then I will pass the information on to the shop owner so that it can be passed on to the car owner and he can make his own choice as to whether or not to be counted in the registry.

    Thanx

    Grumpy B
     
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  8. 134282

    134282 Four Time F1 World Champ
    BANNED

    Aug 3, 2002
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    There's nothing wrong with disclosing the serial number and subsequent details (i.e., exterior/interior color, mileage, etc.). There's nothing wrong with saying, "I saw this car at ABC Garage in Anywheretown, USA." But leave it up to the owner if s/he wants to disclose any other information.
     
  9. Grumpy B

    Grumpy B Karting

    May 31, 2005
    183
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    Don
    Carbon are you tracking the pf coupes too?

    Grumpy B
     
  10. 2000 456M

    2000 456M F1 World Champ

    Sep 29, 2007
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    I disagree. Providing such information could easily lead to invasion of privacy and maybe even danger. If someone had a fairly pricey old car at a shop, e.g. a 250 tdf or a 275 GTB, the car could be stolen or someone could learn about the owner who could then be robbed or burgled. Not all thieves or home invaders only go down market. We loaned some paintings to a museum a few years ago and, when asked if we wanted to be listed as the lenders on the identification card beneath the paintings, we said no. I don't think we were being paranoid, just the sense that the desire for privacy was greater for us than the desire for recognition (i.e., the opposite of celebrities).
     
  11. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 22, 2004
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    On a similar subject, why is it that auction houses, in their fantastically "enhanced" car descriptions in their catalogs, rarely if ever identify the current owner, while having no qualms about disclosing previous owners' names? Do they get the previous owners' permission to do so? I doubt it. I guess you could say it's public record, but that would be a stretch.


    Jack
     
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  13. Tony K

    Tony K Formula 3

    Jun 7, 2006
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    How? How can knowing the VIN of a car lead to all of that? That's something anyone can see who just looks in the window. What is that going to give away?

    There is no disagreement that the owner's name and location are private, but please explain how the VIN of a car and the state it is located in can lead to all of that. In many states you can pretty much look up that much for free or for a small fee (and the owner's information is withheld).

    There is no harm in saying #12345 has been found, it is red with tan interior, excellent condition, and in California. Any thief who is the least bit professional can find a million other ways to find a wealthy target to burglarize or find the location of a specific model of car to steal and ship to South America. If anything, being known in a registry is an extra measure of security against being stolen. I suppose you are also going to say that license plate numbers are private information? Nope. Only personal info is private. Anyone who thinks otherwise is unreasonable and overly self-important.

    Nobody's personal privacy extends into the public realm like that. Nobody has the right to get upset that someone saw their car, chassis #1234, in such and such a county and state.

    I would take down the number, and ask the owner anyway. If the owner says "sure", then great. If the owner says "no", then I would just include the last 4-5 digits that identify the chassis number, color, condition, and state.

    Another thing to consider is this: If these cars are so precious/expensive, perhaps the registry should be private, made only available to be viewed by owners, known collectors, qualified buyers, etc., rather than somewhere out on the internet for all to see.
     
  14. Horsefly

    Horsefly F1 Veteran

    May 14, 2002
    6,929
    You can't look through the window and get the VIN of most cars made before 1968 when federal law required the VIN to be visible through the windshield. Most any pre-1968 car will NOT have an exposed VIN that can even be seen. It could come down to a legal issue. Posting VIN info about a car that was seen inside a PRIVATE shop that is NOT legally considered to be a public place could be seen as an invasion of privacy.

    Can I walk into your garage, pop the hood to your vintage Ferrari, write down the VIN and then plaster it over the internet without your permission? If not, then why would you want anybody to do the same if your car was sitting in a private shop having work done on it? Can the shop worker also rummage through the glove compartment and look for your sister's address and phone number?
     
  15. 285ferrari

    285ferrari Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Sep 11, 2004
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    If you spotted the car in a shop or facility---leave it alone///////If you see a car out in public, post away--Most cars have a VIN visible from outside the car which is known as a public VIN and by federal law cannot be covered up....
     
  16. Grumpy B

    Grumpy B Karting

    May 31, 2005
    183
    South Bay
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    Don
    Everyone is hitting on all my reasons for asking the original question. It wouldn't be a big deal if i had seen the car on the road puttering about (the way only a Ferrari could putter) and was able to ask the owner permission to post the info about his car or if it was sitting on a show room floor at the local dealer. But, the car which is very incomplete at the moment in a shop. I don't want to get the shop in trouble with the car owner, I don't want to be banned from the shop (somedays its just fun to visit and learn new things/day dream), and I know that registries are great resourses for prospective buyers and owners alike. I don't believe that I would be giving out enough information to get the car stolen. But on the other hand how much would i be violating this person's privacy?

    Grumpy B
     
  17. 285ferrari

    285ferrari Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Don't post any info you have found on a car in a shop......The owner has an absolute right to the privacy of the car while at a indoor facility. Can anyone just go into the shop and poke around??? If the answer is no then leave the info alone and don't post it....
     
  18. bjhunt1975

    bjhunt1975 Formula Junior

    Jul 22, 2006
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    B.J.
    So on a more important note...285ferrari, your avatar freaks me out everytime I see it? Is there a story behind it?
     
  19. Grumpy B

    Grumpy B Karting

    May 31, 2005
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    Don
    That's one anwser I am looking for. Thank you now a question. As someone who runs a regisrty if you are given information about a car that hasn't been seen/unknown would you take it/ use it?
     
  20. Grumpy B

    Grumpy B Karting

    May 31, 2005
    183
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    Don
    I will also be sitting on this info for now. So please dont worry about me posting it.
     
  21. Tony K

    Tony K Formula 3

    Jun 7, 2006
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    You've latched onto something insignificant to the argument.

    BULL ****. Period. This isn't a criminal investigation. Where you saw something means nothing. The person wasn't trespassing in the shop, and a VIN isn't private information in any case. And there is no law against talking about the serial numbers of cars. The most you can do is piss off the shop owner. Please, tell me what kind of crime has been committed here.


    Walk into the garage -- were you invited, or were you trespassing? First point of difference.
    Pop the hood of someone else's car -- with permission or not? Second ridiculous stretch you are making.
    Plaster over the internet -- I guess you missed my comment at the end about maybe the registry should be private. And please note, people talk ALL THE TIME on THIS FORUM about chassis numbers of more valuable cars THAT DON'T BELONG TO THEM. Sorry, no harm being committed here, no law broken.

    What does rummaging through someone's glove box have to do with seeing a VIN that was obviously out in the open? Again, you are making a complete distortion to try to prove a vain point.

    It's plain and simple: If you walk into some place lawfully and see something that is generally considered not private, that information is yours. You are not committing any crime. You may piss someone off, but that's about it. And that is all the original poster was asking about: Etiquette.

    Regarding etiquette: It is poor etiquette for the car owner to get his panties in a bunch because someone knows the VIN. That is completely ridiculous and absurd, and some people really need to get over themselves and find something more serious to take seriously.
     
  22. Tony K

    Tony K Formula 3

    Jun 7, 2006
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    Record it and keep it. As the keeper of the registry, if it is the main recognized registry by the owners'/collectors' community and you are an important figure to them, then the car being accounted for is more important than whether the owner is irrationally ticked off. Who knows, he may sell it in a year. Or a month. You are tracking the cars, not the owners. Post non-revealing information about the car to the registry and be done with it.

    Seriously, old Ferraris aren't the only collector cars in the world, and extremely wealthy people aren't the only people who have an interest in and a right to privacy. There are registries for rare (and not so rare) cars of all price ranges, and it happens all of the time that owners are concerned about privacy. In those cases, the keepers of the registries post a minimum amount of information publicly and retain the rest privately. And life goes on. No need for drama. :)

    I'm continually amazed at how full of themselves so many people in the Ferrari community tend to be, like how an issue can even be made of it like it was in this thread. For most cars/registries, this isn't a question that would even need to be asked. :rolleyes:
     
  23. Grumpy B

    Grumpy B Karting

    May 31, 2005
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    Don
    Thanks Tony. BTW with the level of restoration going on we well proply see the car at auction/monteray/cavillano.
     
  24. Samimi

    Samimi Formula 3

    Oct 17, 2005
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    Been there, real nice city. :D
     
  25. Horsefly

    Horsefly F1 Veteran

    May 14, 2002
    6,929
    Actually, it is totally relevant to the argument. The original posting was in reference to a PF coupe from the 1950s, therefore the only way anybody is going to find the VIN is to pop the hood. Did the "hood popper" have permission to be messing around with the cars in the shop, or was he just prowling around?
    Nobody said that a crime had been committed,....we were talking about "etiquette", not violations of the letter of the law.
    "No harm",.....well, that's a matter of opinion. Most people would not want the serial numbers of their valuable collector cars plastered over the internet. In the Ferrari world, such numbers are put out in the open by auction houses and dealers so much through the years that the history of most any car is well known. But in the case of a more common PF coupe, the owner probably wouldn't sleep better knowing that some unknown person was popping the hood of his car in a repair shop. As for as popping the hood,...."with permission or not",.....WHOSE permission? The owner of the car, or the owner of the shop? I wouldn't want a repair shop owner to give his buddies permission to pop the hood on my car and write down any info they want. What next;....toss them the keys and give them "permission" to take it out for a spin?
    Once again, the car under discussion is a PF coupe that does NOT have a VIN out in the open. Anybody who is gathering the info is obviously either popping the hood without the owner's permission or shuffling through private paperwork at the repair shop. Either way,.....not cool and definately NOT displaying good "etiquette"
    Why would you do something to make another classic car owner mad at you. It's not your car,....keep your hands off it.
    It's not so much the VIN itself,...it's how you acquired the information. Popping hoods on a man's car when he is not around, and you are not officially involved with the repair of said vehicle is not proper. Once again,...it's best to keep your hands off what does not belong to you.
     

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