EVERYONE: Please read and reply accordingly

I agree with Steven's first post and thecarreaper's last post as well, and I would like to band together to get some recognition and change the current way the Ferrari company in the US deals with clients and service.

I am 31 and currently own 2 F-cars. In the past 4-5 years of ownership, I have been astonished at the poor customer and car service I have received at the F-dealerships in NY. In these years of F-car ownership, I have learned NOT to use dealerships if I want honest and proper service for my cars. I think that this should change, and I am willing to assist in any way.

My story: When WWoC screwed up my 355 engine during a 15k service, I took it back to them 5 times to repair the problem. They also neglected to give me receipts for 3 of these occasions when I brought the car to them for repair, saying it was not necessary, because there was no charge - so, there is no paper trail. I discussed this problem with Ferrari executives both at Maranello and at FNA to recount my issues about my treatment at WWoC, and at both ends they acted unaccountable, and told me that WWoC was a factory authorized dealership and SHOULD do the right thing. WWoC also acted unaccountable as the problem, although caused by them, was not their issue (unless I was willing to spend $$$ to fix the problem - that they created), and didn't care about the fact that I had spent close to $40k in 3 years (the first 3 of ownership) for repairs and maintenance at their shop alone.

I am not selling my cars, but I am PISSED, and I would do whatever it would take to get Ferrari to acknowledge their poor record for customer service and do something about it. I also hope they realize that they are losing thousands of dollars a year on me alone for having snubbed me, sending me off to find another private repair shop to fix my cars.

If any of you can figure out a way to deal with this, write me and I'll do my best to assist.

David
[email protected]

 

Tom B.
In my humble way, as Elton sang,I've "put the flame torch to the keep".
I come from a long line of people who have.
(My Dad made Nixon's Enemy list)
"All I am saying...is give peace a chance" Talk to Ferrari. Write to Ferrari.
EVERY problem that I have EVER had with one of their cars they have fixed in a way I found to be satifactory and they did it quickly and without strum and drang.
Audio
I agree completely. The record I've had in holding various Co.'s accountable on behalf of myself and my clients is public record. Let's leave it at you could use the sum to buy a very nice Van Gogh.
Steve my friend never forget: "You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows"
RAGE ON!
Best to all of you. I really mean that.
Jim

 

What they did to Brian is typical (see my post under that thread).

Ferrari of Scottsdale essentially destroyed the engine of my TR....costing me $13K+ for a major done by the 'dealer'. They refused to make good on their mistake and told me to take a hike.

At the time I was the regional director of the FCA in AZ....and I am still a board member and actively involved. The dealer gets zero service work from our club now! Sure they do BS warranty work (and screw that up)....but we as a group voted and found better places to spend our money. Every new member is advised about the dealer's incompetancy and given recommendations as to where to go....or how to tackle things themselves. When there are only a couple of hundred owners and we have most of them as members....their arrogance in not handling problems in service as well as having a 'magical mystery list' for new cars where prefered (read customers who bribe)...get cars is outrageous.

We can do the same thing. We just have to act as a group and vote with our wallets. I still have Fcars...but I bought an SL55...and was treated like a king. That is important....but the fact that it runs away from my Fcars and too much other stuff to list at the track is a bonus.

If they were sitting with cars (like the early 90's)...things 'might' change.

Ciao

Dino

If you are in AZ and want to know where to go...PM me

 

I am glad to know that I am not the first person to deal with these problems, but what can we do on a group level to correct the issues?

Can we recommend or force Ferrari NA or Ferrari SpA to make each of the dealerships accountable for their customer service? For instance, I know that Land Rover used to call my father after service was done to his car to make certain that he received good, courteous assistance from the dealership. And, although they charge him thousands to fix his Range Rover all to often, he is generally very pleased with his Range Rover ownership and experience when asked. And, they are often willing to help and assist during and after the fact in all situations when dealing with warranties and repairs.

I know that all Ferrari dealerships are not the same, and that some are actually excellent, so there must be a way for Ferrari to implement a plan to make this so across the board.

How do we make something like this happen?

David

 

What percent of F-car owners are actually enthusiasts who read F-chat and the like and go to local/national Ferrari events? I don't know, but I imagine that it is relatively high as compared to others manufacturers. Even still, I would bet it is less then fifty percent. I suspect that the majority of Ferrari owners don't care about various issues of service and dealer attitude and all the rest, they have a Ferrari, they have "made it" and that is all that counts. That's why I think it is unlikely that Ferrari is going to change anytime soon. I might be wrong, I hope I am, but as long as Ferrari maintains the mystique(one of the reasons many of us love them) things probably won't change.

 

If I had to use FNA I would never own a Ferrari. I own them because I can fix them. I feel sorry for you guys who need FNA. I felt so bad for the rip off two guys I know got I fixed their cars for them for free. I am not a mechainic. Both repairs would have been over $13,000 and one was $17,000. They each had to pay full retail for parts about $3K but that was a bargin. I have owned just about every car including a Rolls. Ferrari is the worst carmaker on the planet. Their cars are poorly built and the customer service does not exist. But the cars are cool so you suck it up and fix it yourself. I have better things to do with my time but I would rather spend the time and not deal with FNA. I will help anyone who wants to fix their Ferrari for that reason. And for those who say these are are too electronic...well BS. You can get around that with a digital trace O-scope and never look back. You don't need FNA. 1/2 the 360's out there have less than 10k miles. These owners keep these cars almost like new. If I were Brian I would just buy one on the used market and let someone else have the depreciation.

 

Guys read my posting from yesterday:

This is spot on, the problems with the FERRARI experience are almost ALWAYS due to the individual dealer, not FNA per se. Many are good and provide a great experience, however, I am hearing more and more from friends in the community that an alarming number are becoming very slip-shod in their handling of customers. For starters, and I won't name names, many are absolutely unwilling to deal with any cars in the 1980-1992 range unless it's a supercar (F40) flagship (512TR) etc. Go to many showrooms and you will not see any 308,328,348 as they are BENEATH some of these dealers, you will see TR and 512BB however. Secondly, the so-called "preferred customer" status is most certainly up for sale to the highest bidder at many dealers. Now do not get me wrong, I am no socialist, but Ferrari should really REWARD those that are true afficionados of the cars, especially since many of them stuck it out through the "questionable" reliability and workmanship periods of the late 70's and early 80's. This is a fact that can be seen by all the crazy speculation that has gone on in Fcars since the intro of the 288 and F40 and STILL continued into the late 90's with 360 and 360 spyders, regardless of Ferrari SPa's attempt to halt speculation with the lease -to-buy program initiated with the F50. The problem is, too many Johnny-come-lately dot.com and athletes go into dealers with suitcases full of cash (I'm embellishing here) and the dealers see $$$$ cha-ching!!!! I think ANYONE THAT WANTS A NEW FERRARI AND CAN AFFORD ONE SHOULD BE ABLE TO PURCHASE ONE, don't get me wrong, I am already reading in my mind all the retorts of people that are going to be offended by what I am writing, but to SCREW a customer, like what has happened to you, is an undefendable offense. It is apparent to me that someone got your car, plain and simple, there was no "damage sustained while shipping" PERIOD. Let me repeat: I AM NO SOCIALIST, I understand the dealer is in business, as we all are, TO MAKE MONEY, and to that end they SHOULD make as much as they can, whenever they can, but NOT at the expense of a customer's loyalty.

I say, buy something pre-owned, preferable through a non-dealer source, and have it thoroughly checked over. Then you find a COMPETENT, well trained mechanic in your area that is experienced with Fcars to maintain it. The dealerships poor treatment and service WILL come back to haunt them if more of us did just that. Why? Because all the guys that just HAVE TO HAVE THE NEWEST, LATEST AND GREATEST F CAR TOY HAVE WHAT IN COMMON? Earlier model trade ins, even if they are only a year or two old, the dealer has to move that inventory. Sure they will make $XXXX on a new car, but if fewer people in the market took the dealers **** and bought their pre-owned (many times already sufficiently deppreciated) models from sources OTHER than dealers (private sales, other marques dealers, exotic brokers, etc.) the dollars made on those new sales would actually be diminished in a percentage of profit standpoint because they would be carrying the weight of the trade-in inventory that they were not moving, plus the loss of the very HIGH-MARGIN maintenance income, I guarrantee, after a short while of that, some of these dealers would be scratching their heads saying WTF?

The power of the internet I say!!

 

Rob does not like this thread because it potentially can negatively impact sponsors but let me tell you, when I bought my wife's 2001 MB, they treated me like a king, and this was NOT the most expensive model they had on the lot, it was $63k, no POS but not top of the heap either. I am interested in helping ANY fchat members looking for cars as I have quite a few good connections and with the exception of something crazy like an Enzo, I might be of assistance. Email or PM me.

The dealers are, more often than not, becoming victims of their own, and Ferrari SpA's success. With Ferrari dominating the world of F1 and the brand name, already great, reaching new heights in the last 6 years, these dealers realize they are attracting a whole new breed of customer where status, not heritage, is of utmost importance, and as such, the "money is no object" philosophy goes hand-in-hand. Those that have stated the power is in the checkbook are right on. The sad fact of the matter is: there are many people with more money than brains that are in the market for Ferraris, especially NEW boutique, limited runs like the CS; this creates an artificial, of sorts, demand that the dealers are capitalizing on. I liken this to an auction: I am sure many of you watched Barrett Jackson last month. When there a 2,3 or more guys looking at the same car, they tend to get their testosterone up and usually end up driving the price of a car beyond where it SHOULD be. Case in point: last year some guy paid well in excess of $100k for a 'Cuda from the TV show "Nash Bridges" simply because it was from the show and Don Johnson drove it. The car was not even a Hemi and therefore should have fetched NO MORE than around $30-40k Oh boy, Don Johnson drove it, that really adds to the "provenance" of the car.

I say, if more of us made a concerted effort to look elsewhere for cars, this would come to an end, not immediately, probably within 3-5 years.

 

Well,I haven't had any Mechanical problems with my Ferrari,yet. So,just in what I've seen in the limited Services that I have had,I'm satisfied.

But,if we're talking about attitudes,here also,with Dealerships. I have a story or two to pass along.

First off. I made my $$ the Old Fashioned way...I EARNED it. Worked 2 jobs most of my life. 80 hour+ weeks. Was a partner in one successful business,and an owner of another. I've always worked for myself,because I never wanted to have to wear a Suit and Tie. I'm a very Casual guy,and look it.

When I bought my first 'Vette when I was 25. (19 years ago) I had hair halfway down my back,usually had a Bandana headband.(I also played Guitar in a Long Haired,Rock and Roll Band,as Alice Cooper once said) Jeans. Flannels,or T-Shirts. Anyway,I go to look at a 'Vette with one of My GQ looking Buds,who drove me there. First off,the Car Salesman approaches HIM and asks if he can be of any help. My friend says,"He's looking at that 'Vette". The salesman gives a somewhat disappointed sounding,"Oh". So,I looked at the car,and ended up saying that I'd Buy it. We went inside,and the salesman,asks me,in still a droll,unenthusiastic tone. "So,how are you going to Pay for this car?" I replied,"Cash!" and whipped out a thick wad of Hundreds. All of a sudden,this guys all,"Yes SIR!!!". "Sit down,Sir!" "Relax,Sir!!!" Yeah,his "Attitude" changed really quick. And,I bargained the car down to my price.

Anyway. I've cleaned up my act in the past few years,(at Wife's insistance) Cut the Hair,etc... Dress alittle better. So,I go into a Ferrari dealer. (I already own a 308) But,I was looking at some New Ferrari's.(never know. I just might lose my "Reserve" and buy one on Impulse... ) One of the salesmen,who didn't even come up to ask if he could help me,was walking past. I say,"Beautiful Car!". He says, "It sure is. IF you can afford it." ...BIG mistake,pal. Because,despite what I may look like,I CAN afford it. And,if/when I decide to buy another one,it's not going to be from you!

Nope. That "Attitude" is NOT going to get them Nowhere!

But,the people at the Dealership where I Did buy my Ferrari were exceptionally nice. Even though it was a "Lowly 308" They treated me like I was buying an F50. (this was just over 3 years ago.) They took a couple hours to walk me through the car. Explain in detail how Everything works. Service,all sorts of aspects of the car. And,the Owner of the Dealership,took time to tell me "Welcome to Ferrari!" and,talk with me for a little while about Ferrari's. I have alot of Respect for that,and when I am ready to add on,(which is going to be soon) He will get my return Business. Because,I think that They know that it doesn't matter what a person wears,or looks like when they are looking at Ferrari's. (within reason,that is )Sure,I bet that they get more than their share of Tire Kickers,and Dreamers. But,you Never know when someones going to say,"I'll Take it!!!"

 

You know, this is a great post and when the other thread by Brian started yesterday I started to type out a similar story but did not, I thought people would think I was being snobbish or whatever. But, since you ran the gauntlet, here goes: I have bought many new toys including 11 superbikes, and 6 high line sports cars. EVERY TIME, it was based on the first walk in to the dealer and I knew going in that it would not take much to SELL me because being somewhat of a gear-head I do my due-dilligence prior to walking in. In the case of my Ferrari, once I sat behind the wheel and went for a 5 mile test drive I was hooked, and when we got back to the dealer I said let's do the paperwork. But I have walked in to Ferrari dealerships that shall remain nameless on a weekend when I am wearing a warm up suit, jeans, or some otherwise innocuous, EVERY-DAY Joe clothes and it is like I do not exist. Never mind the fact that IF someone deigns to walk up to me they then see the fact that I have an $18,000 watch on my wrist. That should not matter ONE BIT !! If I owned a dealership I would treat EVERYONE with a courteous smile, hello and what can I do for you sir/madaam?

Anyway, one day my father and I walked in to a dealership to look at 360's and my father, true to his: I don't give a **** what people think of me" attitude was wearing an ugly, nothing special shirt, faded, out-of-style jeans, and WHITE SOCKS with a $500 pair of Italian slip-ons (Myself, my wife, my brother and when she was alive, my mother all tried to break him of this idiotic habit) Nevertheless, we stood on the showroom floor for 32 minutes (I timed it, YES I did) and NOT ONE PERSON EVER came up to say HI. Now, that dealer made a huge mistake: my father could have written a check for CASH for ANY/and or ALL of those cars including the F40, F50, 288GTO, Enzo that were on the floor, he buys new sports cars EVERY year and currently has a '04 Porsche TT, '01 Lotus V8TT,'04 H2 and is IN THE MARKET FOR A FERRARI !!! I myself am in the market for Ferrari #2 and am considering either a TR, 512TR or a F355B We did not exist to these people !!! My father said, let's go, and as we were walking out he said, "really stupid, you never KNOW anything about someone just by looking at them, I could buy and sell these guys.."

 

Judging by the snow picture thread, my guess is Rob's busy digging his car out of a snow bank at the moment.

You're right, Frank. I think that falls under the "It's 2004, join us" philosophy that not all (in fact very few) big-expense customers are likely to walk into a dealership in coat and tie, gaudy gold watch, etc. I've found it interesting to hear the different experiences that people have had at identical locations. You have to factor in the odd bad day, naturally, but for instance the first time I went to Lake Forest (sans Ferrari) I got a real down-the-nose attitude from the gentleman that I had been forced to approach. Fast forward, and I hear praise from those Ferrari owners who frequent the shop--for repairs. It amazes me that any retailer--anywhere--would try and adopt an attitude that they felt fitting of an upscale store. The last time this happened to my wife and I at Bloomingdale's (we hardly dress up to go shopping!) I corralled a manager, told her how we felt about getting an attitude from a 21 year-old daddy's-girl sales clerk, and that from now on we would spend our money at stores that at least pretend to appreciate our business. We walked out, and that was 4 years ago. Haven't returned, and I know how much we've spent in stores since. But not Bloomingdale's.

 

Right on Gilles!! These snotty, teenage punks that make $8 an hour have this "air" about them, then you go to checkout, whip out the platinum Amex and all of a sudden they are smiling and bending over backwards to be nice. What a joke !!

 

As someone who while employed at a franchised dealership has actually counseled a few customer's who "got screwed" on how to complain.....as in who to complain to.....and sometimes.....what to refer to and how to say it....all I could add to this thread is that sometimes it's easier to complain a certain way until all opportunities are exhausted before you send the ravaged mob to storm the castle.

Now, I do not know what Brian has said and/or who he has said it to and while I wish him well, all I can say is.........buy a GT2 and send the photo to FNA.

You can always get a used Stradale later......if you dislike the P-car.......and the $$$ don't go into the dealers or manufacturer's pocket if it is any consolation.

Napolis.....

Jim.....you are in a 60's musical mood today aren't you ?

 

Hey, while I agree that there are those who are getting the short end of the stick here, isn't it nice that there are forums like this where we can all get educated as to some of the shenanigans that go on?

We as consumers are more educated than ever, thanks to the internet and forums like this. This education is what is and will change things.

Having done my due diligence for my recent purchase and post purchase experience, has saved me a lot of headaches. And, to see the glass half full, I have had some excellent dealings with FNA and F-SPA. I have been treated with great respect. A recent trip to Maranello has only increased my respect for the company! The company does care about its customers imo.

So, I wish to make this a "glass half full" post rather than focusing on the negative. And, it is largely because of my education from F-chat that I can say this.

Ciao,

Scott

 

I am new to these forums and to Ferrari ownership. I purchased a 2000 360 Modena while on vacation in Fl. At the urging of my wife who suggested we visit a Ferrari dealership (which these cars have been a dream and passion of mine since I was a kid) i went. We walked in to the dealer ship wearing vacation wear, shorts and polo shirt, and as soon as i walked in a sales consultant approached us and was very cordual. We talked about all the diffrent makes that were there and he answered all my questions and any concerns that I had. Four hours later I was the proud owner of my first Ferrari, Which I've had now for a week. My experience with the dealership and staff was nothing but pleasant and enjoyable. I even noticed when people camre in just to admire these automobiles the staff even aforded them the same respect.
I live in Pa and the dealer asked me if I wanted them to deliver the car to my home or their sister Co. in NJ. I told him no I;ll drive it. It was a wonderful way to get the feel of how awesome this car truly is.
Thank for letting me rattle on,
Tom

 

That is great, unfortunately, not ALL dealers follow the same philosophy and THAT is the true SHAME in all of this.

 

I was involved in a similiar battle with enthusiasts of my marque over the same issue, cracked headers due to their cast iron alloy composition and extreme heat, and the results were the factory was not willing to offer compensation except on a one-on-one basis if the parts failed within a year after the emissions warranty expired. Many times, the dealerships have absorbed the cost of replacement with tax and labor included outside of the emissions warranty to maintain a good relationship with the customer. The amounts in question with F-cars are more than a $400 fix, however.

While a collective effort could be organized on F-chat, I highly recommend that interested parties converse over e-mail. This is a two way street, if enough people vote with their wallet, FNA on behalf of the dealers could put pressure or undue legal attention on Rob and F-chat for lost revenue, for starters.

The forum I am a part of (20,000 strong) does not allow its resources to be used for a class action lawsuit, to post negative experiences about a dealership and mention their name due to lost revenue, or to be used to collectively organize in a way to have negative impact on the community. They refuse to be used as leverage or in negotiations over disputes and I think F-chat (Rob and sponsors) should publically take the same stance.

If a decision to compensate or not is reached, then a sticky can be made alerting owners and potential owners of the results. With the legal talents on the site, there are (hopefully) enough resources to protect F-chat, however the issue should be addressed as individuals and consumers first before going public and trying to bloody the nose of FNA or the dealerships and permanently change the good relations F-chat and those associated with it currently enjoy, if any.

Sunny

 

The market tends to be dispassionate in its ruthlessness. This group, as evidenced by this thread, is passionate about this issue. You are going to lose. Not an editorial comment, merely an observation.

Every system is perfectly designed for the results that it achieves. That there are more than a few dissatisfied Ferrari customers suggests that the system is designed to achieve this. Furthermore, in that it has persisted for some time, and Ferrari NA continues to thrive, it must be by design.

Emotion and business represent an incompatible combination. In the words of my 17-year old, "Get over it."

Jim S.

 

Expensive "High end" Exotics,NEED to be perfect. MUST be perfect. And,if they aren't,then FNA,AND the Dealer need to bend over backwards to make SURE that they are. Whatever it takes. Especially,during their Warranty period. Or,if a constant,similar problem develops and persists in MANY of the same cars...an obvious defect or flaw....even after the Warranty period expires. I mean,we aren't talking Chevy's and Ford's here.

 

Hate to be an economist, but FNA could actually do something about the long waits for new cars. Raise the prices.

It's called price elasticity. The more you charge, the less buyers that will be standing in line with $$ wiling to buy.

If they charged $325K for a 360, you might be able to get one a little quicker. Same if they wanted $3.5MM for an Enzo. Make no mistakes, there would be buyers at these prices, just not as many.

FNA is actually doing us a favor. If scalpers had people waiting in line to buy tickets, do you think they'd raise the price?

They owe us nothing. As long as we are willing to buy their cars and accept their service practices and pricing, they will continue to make a profit and won't have much incentive to change.

Don't get me wrong, I don't condone their practices, but they are completely justifiable given basic market economics.

Meanwhile, I'll stick to 15 year-old Fcars that can be had for a little less than sticker ;-)

 

You guys are like King Canute.... trying to make the tide stop moving. Ferrari is what it is. For anyone who has been to Maranello ever, you can see that making and selling road cars is really not a huge priority at Ferrari SpA. They race! Nothing else is really important. Racing (and winning) is what drives that company. That's where the dollars are. Sponsorship that pays for the race team, which in turn builds the brand which in turn is licensed everywhere it can possibly be. The road cars are inconsequential, but provide the facade of the enterprise. It was so in Enzo's day. It is so now.

If senior management at Ferrari (which is actually owned by a big bank primarily - Mediobanca, and to a lesser extent by Fiat Industrial group NOT FIAT AUTO) was really concerned about customers for road cars it would act appropriately. They sell 4,000 cars a years for heavens sake! But they sell a gaziillion pieces of crap with their logo plastered all over it, to people who will never in any lifetime actually own a real roadgoing Ferrari.

The reason their cars sat on dealer lots in the early nineties was because they couldn't win a race anywhere. If you want better service or better anything from Ferrari pray for the demise of the race team.