F1 Employment

Discussion in 'F1' started by sduke, Mar 29, 2005.

  1. sduke

    sduke Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2003
    The Hub City, Texas
    Full Name:
    Steven D
    Hey all

    My youngest daughter is a college freshman majoring in Sports Management. She attended a sports marketing symposium with her school today in Miami where several sports teams and leagues discussed employment opportunities and different specialties in sports management.

    Here's the deal. She said the only part that really interested her was when one of the race facility managers spoke about auto racing. She loves F1 and she called me afterwards to tell me she wants to work in F1 when she graduates.

    So, who and how does one make contact with the F1 management? Does anyone know if there are intern possibilities, or other ways to get a foot in the door? Has anyone ever known someone involved with F1 that could provide some kind of road map for her to follow? Does one have to work in the minor leagues, say CART or F3 to get in the door?

    I know this is a long shot, but she asked me to help and I figured if anyone in the world would have an idea, someone here might. I have to try, after all, this is for my baby.

    Thanks in advance guys.
  2. SROC4

    SROC4 Formula 3

    Mar 16, 2005
    San Francisco
    Full Name:
    All I can say is trying to find work in F1 is extremely difficult, especially if you are not an engineer or someone in the technical side, and add to that you are from the States w/c means they will need to sponsor you to work in Europe. They only do that for really top notch engineers, aero guys, etc.

    F1 teams receive hundreds or thousands of job inquiries everyday and have no time to go through them all. I'm sure it will somehow help if you know someone from one of the teams that have a big influence within. I've applied for a Marketing position for a number of teams and had no luck so far. Due to either short of experience or they have very low turnover in that particular department (no positions open).

    I know some people that work in one of the top teams in F1 doing marketing and gave me some ideas. It helps to have experience within the industry, but sometimes they will go for someone that has no experience. Another thing they do is hire from other teams. He said some of the teams actually recommend their employees to them.

    The impression I got from them is that sometimes you can get a job in F1 by pure luck. It's really competitive.

    One of the guys I know actually had to wait 5 years AFTER he was interviewed before they offered him the job. Imagine that?

    The other guy I know waited 2 years before he got a call for an interview and eventually the job. He had an automotive marketing background.

    Keep in mind they both work for one of the top teams in F1. So maybe trying to apply with a smaller team might give you a better chance.

    My advice is to work for race teams in Europe (WRC, Le Mans, GP2, A1 GP, etc.) This will get you closer since a lot of the people in F1 came from the lower formulae.

    I hope this helps and I wish your daughter luck. I am still pursuing a job in F1. So good luck to both of us.
  3. Seth

    Seth Formula 3

    Feb 8, 2004
    cant help much really, but i also am trying to get into the world of F1, for mercedes-mclaren... that would be my dream... i am going to a "13th year" program next year in oxford then trying to get into Loughbrougho university in the UK... and mabey then on to Cranfield Uni for post grad... unless i can get into Mclaren... as for getting in connections are everything... so far i have meet the brother of an Mclaren race engineer, and a former F1 driver... the one from mexico... kinda bad that i dont know his name but he wasnt much help... and one of my dads clients knows carrol shelby... sont really know if that helps me much but has to come in handy somehow....
  4. sjb509

    sjb509 Guest

    Just a guess but I would think like most things, people employed in F1 worked their way up. Working for a team in NASCAR, for example, would not only teach her the ropes but also let her make some contacts. Moving to a more international ALMS team, perhaps with a team that shares sponsors with an F1 team would then be a logical step in a few years. Once she is established and known in one race series it would be much easier to move up I think.

    F1 seems to me to be very difficult for "outsiders" to break into, but once you're in and proven, finding work might be much easier. Didn't Adrain Newey make in the ballpark of $3M/yr for his aero work?
  5. fluque

    fluque Formula 3

    Jul 30, 2004
    Above 2240m
    Full Name:
    Joe Ramirez
  6. SROC4

    SROC4 Formula 3

    Mar 16, 2005
    San Francisco
    Full Name:
    I met Jo Ramirez at the 2001 USGP when Mika won and DC came 3rd. That was his last race with the team. I was a guest of McLaren at the time and we all wanted to see him pick up the manufacturer's trophy on the podium, but that didn't happen...

    Would have been a nice farewell...
  7. Anthony_Ferrari

    Anthony_Ferrari Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
    Sheffield, UK
    Full Name:
    Anthony Currie
    Is your daughter interested in becoming involved in the management side of an F1 team or is she interested in becoming a driver's commercial manager? If it's the latter then these are the kind of people she should be contacting to try to get some work experience:

    Jonathan Palmer manages Justin Wilson.
    Fernando Paiva manages Cristiano da Matta.
    Enrico Zanarini manages Fisichella and used to manage Eddie Irvine. I think he is also involved in the career of Tomas Scheckter.
    Jean Todt's son manages Felipe Massa.
    John Byfield used to manage Jenson Button.
    Willi Weber manages the Schumacher brothers.
  8. matkat

    matkat Formula 3

    Mar 18, 2003
    Full Name:
    Dave McGuire
    Ferrari were advertising for "Aero dynamics" engineers in Flight International magazine several weeks ago,I saw the ad run at least twice.un fortunately not My discipline.
  9. tatcat

    tatcat F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Sep 3, 2001
    panama city beach FL
    Full Name:
    rick c
    perhaps working for a team's sponsor or parts supplier could be a foot in the door.
  10. Mule

    Mule F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jun 25, 2003
    Full Name:
    The classified section of Aurosport is always filled with F1 job openings, though mostly engineers or highly technical.
  11. imperial83

    imperial83 F1 Rookie

    May 14, 2004
    The first thing that your daughter should do is start building a portfolio of her work. The portfolio should contain any makerting plans, research papers, papers from class assignments releavant to sports sponsorship, sponsorship analysis and even pamphlets or other creative material she has designed.

    There are several aspects of F1 that employ people such as your daughter
    1) Brand Management - Ferrari, McLaren and other top teams have brand management departments.
    2) Human Resources - Working with contracts and recruiting of team personnel
    3) Team Operations - Day to day operations and logistics of running the team
    4) Marketing and Sponsorship - A very wide department of a F1 team encompassing everything from marketing the team t-shirts to landing sponsors.

    Use the portfolio your daughter has developed to see where her strengths and weakness are. Get her work critiqued by professionals in other industries. It will be important to narrow her field down before trying to get a job in F1.

    The next step is just like a driver trying to break into F1. Gain experience in management of auto clubs, track events, then move on to an open wheel series in North America or even Asia (Europe would be ideal but work permit restrictions apply). Whatever you do, make sure your daughter does not get any experience of working for a NASCAR team or some other stock car go around in a circle series. They are run differently and it is almost a no no when trying to get into F1.

    Her contacts while working in Formula series in Asia or North America should help her get valueable contacts. It is immposible to get into F1 managment without either having contacts within the team.

    Take your daughter to F1 races and spend some time in the pit lane area (if possible) or maybe in the paddock area where every team parcks their masion like trailers. You will be amazed at the friendliness of pit crews, logistics personnel and even team management. Do not be shy to show your daughters work to them (remember the portfolio) and market her skills to people.

    I do not want to say for fear of being yelled at by the rest of the users on, but it is fairly easy to get a job in F1 if you are determined to do so. Teams are constantly looking for new personnel. The new Midland Jordan Team just hired over 20 people for brand management and sponsorship related work. New teams such as the group froming the Dubai F1 team are going to be hiring in the near future.

    Finally there is one more aspect of F1 management that everyone over looks.

    - running the actual race at a specific track
    - marketing and promoting the actual race locally and internationally
    The people at Bahrain have launched an astonishing marketing campaign throughout Asia and the middle east to promote the Bahrain GP. Working for the owners of the track is also Sports Management.
  12. SROC4

    SROC4 Formula 3

    Mar 16, 2005
    San Francisco
    Full Name:
    All very good points. Thanks for sharing.
  13. sduke

    sduke Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2003
    The Hub City, Texas
    Full Name:
    Steven D

    I knew this was the place to ask this question. I have forwarded this thread to my daughter. It seems she has a lot of work ahead of her.

    I am hopeful that she is going to follow through on this. I have impressed upon her that if her final goal is truly F1, she will have to pay some dues along the way.

    She did mention that one of the Raceways in Florida had a representative there, so I told her she needs to get back in touch with him and see if there are any internships or such where she could possibly work this summer for a minimum salary and use that as a gauge to see if this is really what she enjoys. F1 looks glamorous, but reality is often not so glamorous.

    Thanks again.
  14. imperial83

    imperial83 F1 Rookie

    May 14, 2004
    Best of luck to your daughter!
  15. iceburns288

    iceburns288 Formula 3

    Jun 19, 2004
    Bay Area, CA
    Full Name:
    Charles M.
    Really? I want to get into F1 as an aerodynamacist.

    I have a few good things going for me as an aerodynamacist:
    It's uncommon
    I'm good at math (real good ;))
    I'm American, I think some teams work like colleges and try to get foreigners on the teams for diversity
    I'm young
    I love it

  16. tritone

    tritone F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 8, 2003
    On the Rock
    Full Name:
    Imperial 83 -

    Thank you for an exceptionally well stated post!
    It's clear that you really thought about the question; and that you have some 'real-world' knowledge.
    Well done.

  17. sjb509

    sjb509 Guest

    Are you in school currently? Is your major AE?

    One class I had for my M.S. was in CFD and I found it very enjoyable. Besides writing your own code, we used Fluent for more complex geometries. I would be interested to hear what other schools use and what they actually use in real F1 teams.

    In a month or so I will be switching from ANSYS to Cosmosworks Advanced Professional for the FEA I do. It also has some compressible fluid flow capability, it will be interesting to compare it to a dedicated software like Fluent.
  18. sjb509

    sjb509 Guest

    I am curious why NASCAR would be make it more difficult than no experience at all. An employee having extensive experience with responsibilities 1-4 on your list would almost certainly be more valuable than someone fresh out of school. Would the IRL count as a go around in circle series also?

    Just wondering...
  19. imperial83

    imperial83 F1 Rookie

    May 14, 2004
    Before answering this question, I want to clarify that I do not want to hijack this thread by making it an anti or pro Nascar thread. I am only reponding to your question because I have some insight into the industry that can help sduke's daughter.

    Here are some of the reason why having no experience at all in sports management would be better than having experience in a NASCAR type series if the end objective is to work in F1:
    1) Stereotype: Experience in a NASCAR type series is looked down upon and frowned upon by several teams as they consider it an inferior race series. Their is a feeling of almost disgust when it comes to American tyle go around the track racing. Part of it may be political, part of it may be justified... I really cannot pin point if the stereotype is legitamate or not. But it exists and serves as a black flag to weed out applicants.

    2) Inexperience is sometime better than any experience whatsoever. Any organization, including teams in F1, have their own models of doing things, their own values and their own objectives. So in some cases the teams look for employees who have little if no experience in racing but are masters of their skill set. The teams would rather mold a fresh out of college employee who is eager to learn and perform rather than re-train an already established worker who has developed a way of doing things as a result of past employment.

    3) Fear of NASCAR. My friends and colleagues associated with F1 will disagree with me but there is a true fear about the growng popularity of F1 and its fan base. NASCAR and its "culture" has an astonishingly big following even outside the states and it is growing. Quite frankly it is a threat to F1 and other formula series. So automatically, an ex-employee from NASCAR looking to move into F1 is considered the enemy, who has been taught and trained by the enemy. Not many people will agree with me on this. But I think there is almost resentment in F1 circles towards the success of NASCAR and this spills over into recruiting for employees in F1.

    4) Difference in employee cultures: I cannot comment on this too much but I have eard through the grape wine that teams in NASCAR and teams in F1 are managed completely different. I do not follow NASCAR so I could be wrong. F1 teams are run as well oiled machines and have strict organization. NASCAR teams have a comparatively more layed back and relatively almost care free system of running things. I am not saying that NASCAR is not organized at all. All I am saying is that NASCAR teams are comparatively less structured and so F1 recruiters may not want to hire from within NASCAR.

    Please once again I do not want to hijack this thread. If you disagree with my views, I could be wrong. Take them with a pinch of salt and feel free to PM me.

    Remember, things could change. F1 team management and event organizers could one day wake up and see great value in hiring from within NASCAR. I sincerely wish best of luck to any NASCAR associated employee and sduke's daughter to fulfill their ambitions in F1 if they desire to do so.

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