360 - F1 Shift Issue - 1st to 2nd | FerrariChat

360 F1 Shift Issue - 1st to 2nd

Discussion in '360/430' started by Greg Mannion, Jun 29, 2022.

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  1. Greg Mannion

    Greg Mannion Rookie

    Feb 17, 2008
    4
    My 360 F1 paddle shift transmission worked well until about three months ago when the transmission heavily/loudly clunked when paddle shifted from 1st to 2nd gear. I took the car in for annual service. Part #180846 (water/oil heat exchanger) had failed and the transmission fluid was contaminated with some coolant. The actuator was determined to not be functioning properly and was replaced. The accumulator lines were bled to eliminate air and supposedly the shifting clunk should be fixed but it is not.

    Currently if the car is paddle shifted from 1st to 2nd gear below ~2400 rpm the shift is smooth. If paddle shifted above ~2400 rpm there is a clunk noise which sounds like mis-meshed gears. The shift between 2nd and 3rd at a variety of rpms results in a short clink sound and shifting between 3rd and 4th and up results in smooth and quiet upshifting which was previously the norm for all gear shifting, up and down. Downshifting (by paddle shift) is smooth and quiet in 6 to 5 to 4 to 3 to 2. I do not downshift to 1 when the car is in motion. The car will automatically downshift as necessary when coming to a complete stop. When coming to a complete stop it will auto downshift 80% of the time to 2nd gear and no further. I can manually paddle shift down to 1st gear while at a complete stop and the transmission will go into 1st gear about half the time (or stay in 2nd half the time). I then accelerate from the complete stop in either 1st or 2nd gear depending upon which gear the transmission lowered to.

    The 1st to 2nd shift above ~2400 rpm sounds like the transmission synchronizer is not syncing properly. What else can I check/fix/replace to get the 1st to 2nd shift to again be smooth?
    Do I need a new transmission? Thanks.
     
  2. modificator

    modificator Formula Junior
    Regional Sponsor Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 12, 2020
    329
    Florida
    Full Name:
    George
    When your heat exchanger fails you get engine coolant in the transmission oil. But the actuator is NOT using the transmission oil, it is operated by a separate circuit with a different fluid. The actuator is located above the transmission oil level (not immersed in it), it is just splashed with it as the car is being driven around providing some lubrication for the actuator's "fingers".

    So it is almost impossible that heat exchanger failure contamination has anything to do with the actuator problem, unless the actual transmission shafts and gears which the actuator moves got worn out/damaged/corroded to a point where the actuator could not move them and got mechanically damaged/broken. Can you find out what exactly was wrong with the actuator, how it was determined that the actuator is bad and even get the broken part back? One can not only visually inspect the actuator "fingers" for any damage but also connect the actuator to the F1 pump without installing it and run the test cycle/calibration to see if it works properly.

    If the actuator was good and changed for no reason, most likely you need a transmission rebuilt.

    If your transmission is only marginally deteriorated and the loud "clunk" is actually caused by the actuator sometimes slightly missing the gear, I have an idea which may work - simply grind off actuator fingers to shape them to be like in Maserati Duoselect transmission. No parts needed, just a grinder and some labor, and there should be no downside if that does not help. Let me know if you want to try that route so I can post more details.
     
  3. modificator

    modificator Formula Junior
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    Apr 12, 2020
    329
    Florida
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    George
    A clarification - reshaping the actuator would primarily help in a 2-3 and 4-5 shifts, but since your biggest problem is 1-2 it will likely not help. So unless someone else has a better idea it looks like a new or rebuilt transmission is needed. I would advise against a used transmission as it could have the same or other problems.
     
  4. Greg Mannion

    Greg Mannion Rookie

    Feb 17, 2008
    4
    Thank you very much for your input. I appreciate your help.
     
  5. Kent Adams

    Kent Adams Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 11, 2020
    2,034
    See if Aldous at AV Engineering can help you with what is wrong and offer to pay him for his advice, he's located in the UK.
     
  6. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    12,715
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    Why does it not help?
     
  7. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    12,715
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    incidentally, the 1-2 shift is probably the most used shift in any gearbox. It would probably be the first to wear out.
     
  8. Greg Mannion

    Greg Mannion Rookie

    Feb 17, 2008
    4
    Thank you for your suggestion.
     
  9. modificator

    modificator Formula Junior
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    Apr 12, 2020
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    Florida
    Full Name:
    George
    Below is a photo of the transmission I've taken. The horizontal bars operate (each): reverse, 1-2, 3-4, 5-6 gears. Once an actuator "finger" is placed for example inside the 1-2 bar, it moves the bar left and right regardless of the shape of the finger. The fingers are almost rectangular in Ferrari and have the corners cut in Maserati. So I don't see how the cut corners could matter in the the 1-2 shift, but they matter as the "finger" moves for example from the 1-2 bar into 2-3 bar, as it helps in the "jump" between the bars (which have the slot corners slightly rounded off for exactly the same reasons).



    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  10. modificator

    modificator Formula Junior
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    Apr 12, 2020
    329
    Florida
    Full Name:
    George
    If anyone knows why Maserati has cut the corners of the fingers but Ferrari has not adopted that design (except in CS, which is the only place I've seen it in Ferrari) it would be interesting to find out. My guess is that the Maserati is newer so have learned from earlier designs and that the cut corners are superior for faster gear changes, but it's only a guess.
     
  11. Greg Mannion

    Greg Mannion Rookie

    Feb 17, 2008
    4
    Thanks for the photo. I have a transmission shop looking into my issue as well. I appreciate your help.
     

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