F12 TDF Drive Dynamic | Page 2 | FerrariChat

F12 TDF Drive Dynamic

Discussion in 'F12/812' started by Eilig, Sep 20, 2018.

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  1. Challenge64

    Challenge64 F1 Veteran
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    Jul 28, 2004
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    Ron
    1 - Have both a Speciale and a Tdf. My preference goes to the Speciale for a "better" ride but that is just subjective. I've got a lot more miles on the Speciale including two laps of Italy in the Ferrari Tribute to the Mille Miglia and I feel much more in tune with the Speciale. The Tdf seems to have this performance zone I've barely touched (ala Chris Harris review) that I can see when you really get on the throttle..but again I've just start to really get there. Overall I prefer the handling of the Speciale but the Tdf offers (so far) this sort of crazy insane wild ride when pushed. The Tdf leaves me laughing while the Speciale is just worthy of a big grin.

    2 - Horsepower and straight-line speed aside, I am far more comfortable in the Speciale. Can't rate the Tdf (yet) handling in any kind of objective way as I'm still pushing the car little by little.

    3 - well, the bare aluminum is doing just great! no galvanic action!
     
  2. j09333

    j09333 Formula 3

    May 7, 2004
    1,142
    I am in minority.

    I don't like modern sports cars which has a lot of front grip.
    It just make you do nothing but wait until front bites and rear follows, simply put understeers too much.
    Take portofino for example, as you can see in my youtube, it just don't want you to do anything with throttle but wait.
    Make an angle which is ever so slim, then it slides a little but that is it.
    If you push touch little more, then rear slides into spin angle.
    It is near impossible to explore the angle at all.
    I pushed a little in an open area, rear slips, put the foot down all the way, RPM readlines then all of sudden front bites and gets into reverse.



    All modern sports or super cars with great lap times seems do this in different degrees.
    It is front grip machine that won't let you play with it.

    But tdf. It is different!
    tdf is the only car that does not do this.
    Front bites and rear follows at certain point then it oversteers.
    It is by far the most challenging car to drive fast with ESP off and like someone says, it may be not meant to put the system off.
    But there is a charm in this.
    It demands respect and skill.
    My leg shakes after the drive on road or track.
    Ferrari won't make this kind of oversteery machine anytime soon.
     
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  3. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
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    Ron, love your bare aluminum Tdf. Any idea how much weight was saved by going without paint? For example, I remember once while being toured through the Clienti race garage in Maranello, I was told that the F1 cars were not painted. Rather, the Rosso Scuderia color came from ink, as coloring the car with ink saved XXX kg in weight vs using paint...
     
  4. Challenge64

    Challenge64 F1 Veteran
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    Not a clue. I'll be at the factory later this month and can ask though.
     
  5. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
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    You may very well have one of the lightest Tdf's in existence. :)
     
  6. tryptomine

    tryptomine Formula Junior

    Nov 16, 2007
    448
    France

    I own F40 and TDF, Speciale, GT3RS, F355 Challenge, etc , and I can say that TDF is much more dangerous, muchhhhh more then any other cars even F40 !!!
    Unpredictable car !
     
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  7. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
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    Even with all the electronic aids turned on?
     
  8. tryptomine

    tryptomine Formula Junior

    Nov 16, 2007
    448
    France
    Yes .
     
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  9. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    7,658
    Bournemouth, UK
    That is really horrible and not what a modern Ferrari is supposed to feel like. In contrast, the highest praise about another all-mighty F car is what Sutcliffe said about the LaFerrari: "It handles like a 1000 HP 458 Speciale!!!".
     
  10. 4_Eff_Sake

    4_Eff_Sake Formula Junior

    Jul 30, 2016
    761
    Australia
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    Scott
    Nonsense.

    Edgy - yes. Massively powerful - yes. Demands respect - yes.

    Unpredictable? No

    If you can’t predict what it’s going to do, you’re over-driving it for the conditions you’re in

    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  11. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
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  12. Challenge64

    Challenge64 F1 Veteran
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  13. tryptomine

    tryptomine Formula Junior

    Nov 16, 2007
    448
    France
    Even F40 is more predictable than TDF. Anyway I am talking what I am feeling about this car, that’s why I dont drive it much, just for collection . it’s looks stunning and sounds cool, but only in this .
     
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  14. 4_Eff_Sake

    4_Eff_Sake Formula Junior

    Jul 30, 2016
    761
    Australia
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    Scott
    Then you should drive it more. It is not designed to be a garage queen, and the more you drive it, the more predictable it will become.

    I do more km’s on the track with mine than on the road. Can’t get enough of this car.


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  15. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
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    As the OP to this thread, now having had the opportunity to drive my Tdf more since I started this thread pre-purchase, I'll post a follow-up.

    I don't prescribe to the theory that a Tdf is a "bucking bronco," as some have inaccurately stated, apparently as a result of their (supposed) test drives and first-hand accounts. If nannies are left on, the car isn't any more difficult to control, and drive in anger, than my Speciale. I have admittedly NOT turned off the nannies, as I need more experience with the car to develop the confidence to throw out the rear. Plus, I don't have the desire at present to eviscerate a couple thousand dollars worth of tires.

    That being said, the enormous difference between the Tdf and Speciale is the power, and the way it is delivered. Specifically, the Tdf's power delivery is EXPLOSIVE, and rightfully deserving of respect and skill. To that point, here is a short video clip of a Tdf being driven in anger, NANNIES OFF, by a driver in possession of said requisite skill. I see no "bucking," per se:

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BouOUlqim-A/

    Ride quality is absolutely zero issue. No more uncomfortable than a Speciale, and largely the same. In fact, I find both a Tdf and Speciale to have a far more compliant ride than a 991 GT3. The GT3 ride is busy and actually I'd describe it as the "bucking bronco." Quite literally, there have been multiple occasions when I've driven a 991 GT3 at high speed over overpasses on the German autobahn and US interstate systems, where the overpass sits a little higher than the approaching pavement, and the 991 GT3 literally launched me out of the seat. Neither my Tdf nor Speciale has done that, when driving over the same exact overpasses. 991 GT3 = bucking bronco. F12 Tdf = powerful stallion.

    Mine is a 2016, and never driven in the rain. It shows no galvanic action or paint bubbling in the same areas apparently affected by other F12 owners.

    I welcome additional comments from other Tdf owners, and would enjoy any additional insight/stories you may wish to share.

    Net, I remain as jubilant about my Tdf purchase today as when I first bought it, and count it among the small quantity of "forever keeper" cars in my stable. In terms of design, I find it to be the modern day equivalent of a 275 GTB, which is my favorite classic Ferrari of all time. The Tdf is, in my opinion, the first "Icona" car to be released, before the Icona program actually and officially existed. Best of all, it could (and can still) be bought for less money than other Icona cars yet to come, almost certain to be priced into the stratosphere and be even more difficult to obtain.

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  16. Challenge64

    Challenge64 F1 Veteran
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    Wonderful feedback and thanks for posting that! And I agree with everything you said!
     
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  17. lamborarri

    lamborarri Formula Junior

    Nov 15, 2015
    452
    Very helpful info here and congrats to @Eilig

    I have been waiting for the right one to come up. Hope I can join the TDF family soon.
     
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  18. JackCongo

    JackCongo Formula Junior
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    Very well said, I couldn’t agree more. Thank you for taking the time to write this very clear summary.
     
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  19. 4_Eff_Sake

    4_Eff_Sake Formula Junior

    Jul 30, 2016
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    Thanks Jay for those considered comments. I wholeheartedly agree.

    Like you, I actually find my GT3 can bite unpredictably at times, which I admit is usually when I’m pushing hard. Quite possibly the TDF might bite at the limit too with the nannies off but I haven’t found that limit yet as it’s so far away from my current skill level as to be unreachable for the time being. Hopefully I’ll get there one day and will summon the courage to turn the mannetino two more clicks to the right!


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  20. George Taylor

    George Taylor Rookie

    Sep 18, 2019
    2
    Sounds like Best car ever made!
     
  21. George Taylor

    George Taylor Rookie

    Sep 18, 2019
    2
    At least in terms of the rear wheel steering (and maybe electronics lol)
     
  22. uhn2000

    uhn2000 Formula 3

    Oct 15, 2011
    2,108
    Toronto
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    Joe
    If you drive the TDF you will buy it, its that good! I traded an 812 and Speciale for the TDF, its such an amazing car. It can chill with the best of them when it needs to and it can rip your head off and make you sweat when you want that. I find the overall driving experience sublime and its a keeper car!
     
  23. plastique999

    plastique999 F1 Veteran
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    Nov 9, 2008
    8,539
    SoCal
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    Love all the TDF owner’s advice as I’ve researched a ton and wish to add one to my stable in the future.
    Many speak of the power and respect one must give to this car, and my question is, would you compare it to the CGT? I respected that car tremendously and never pushed 10/10 through the canyons.
    Also, I have a friend who adjusted the suspension on his TDF reporting that it makes it much more predictable in its handling...how many owners have adjusted suspension?


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  24. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 World Champ
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    Jun 11, 2013
    10,858
    For whatever its worth, I think they are sooo different. I only have about 90 minutes worth of CGT seat time, but what stuck out to me was the car was always whispering in my ear- one wrong move and I will kill you. My roads are not mirror smooth. They have lots of little bumps and nooks and crannies and on more than one occasion, a mid corner bump caused the CGT to move almost a full car width! I’m used to that with much older cars but not with a modern supercar. My summation of the CGT is its very literally a race car for the road. It has a race car’s unforgiving nature- they are not meant to flatter typical drivers- they are meant to extract the absolute best, most optimal, time around a track. I was both in love and in fear of the car. I realized I could never own this car, I am good enough to realize I am not that good! But it is a singular experience and if you are willing to exercise discretion, I think the CGT is an amazing, wonderful supercar. Also I hear newer tires really help the car- I think the first upgrade was the SuperSport and now there is the 4S. Truly one of the greats.

    I don’t venture beyond Race mode on the street on my TDF and I have yet to take it to the track. So, I do drive it with a certain elan but I don’t really really push it in the manner someone with a lot of talent like Chris Harris would. I didn’t change my suspension but I did have my tech do an alignment and I have a new set of Pirelli Corsas.

    So, within these bounds, the TDF is literally a front engine supercar. Its similar to the 458 in that the relation of throttle response to steering and chassis response is in exquisite balance. It is just much more powerful than the 458. And then there is the sound which is out of this world. On the sound front, the CGT also sounds incredible, but I was surprised at how much of the sound gets lost from the cockpit- the CGT sound is best appreciated by those outside the car. The TDF does sound good from the outside, but you are not losing anything on the inside. It is such a fun car to drive in a spirited manner and I have yet to see it put a foot wrong and I am pretty sure it covers up little mistakes of this pilot. I have been told by a friend that he discovered the Pirelli Corsa tires can only take so many heat cycles and then they fall off in a way that the car feels more of a handful. He told me they now make MPS4S for the car and he is thinking of those.

    Ideally you’d have both. They are different enough. But for me the TDF feels just right. Maybe I am not driving to the level required to have those “OMG this car is a wild beast” moments- but at least with my spirited back roads driving- I only have fun and confidence. And its relatively comfortable. Surely one of the all time great Ferraris- and that is really something special.



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