News

F355 clutch noise when starting car from cold

Discussion in '348/355' started by hugger, Jan 7, 2004.

  1. hugger

    hugger Rookie

    Jan 6, 2004
    7
    Hi everyone, mr. rookie here would like to ask whether other F355 owners know anything about funny metal shaking sound when first engaging clutch (i.e. when transmission still cold). Is this normal? Thanks for any advice.
     
  2. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    6,335
    Sounds like your dual-mass flywheel is getting ready to come apart.
     
  3. hugger

    hugger Rookie

    Jan 6, 2004
    7
    huh? sounds expensive... is this dual mass flywheel a reasonable and easy fix?
     
  4. hugger

    hugger Rookie

    Jan 6, 2004
    7
    Hi again. Mitch, if the clutch does not make any sound once everything warms up, does it still mean that there could be a dual mass flywheel problem lurking around? Thanks for any advice.

    Cheers
     
  5. EVartanian

    EVartanian Formula 3

    Mar 19, 2002
    1,177
    Sunny SoCal
    Full Name:
    Eric
    Aha! We also noticed similar symptoms on our car. Very very faint metallic sound on engaging the clutch when cold and it goes away when warmed up. You kinda have to listen for it, for as I said it is very faint. The kind of thing a picky, paranoid owner would only notice. We actually had it checked out and inspected and supposedly everything was fine. The car behaves wonderfully otherwise. So, we just shrugged it off to the many characteristic noises the car makes. True, it doesn't seem like it should be normal, so we are still suspicious. BTW, this is on a '95 car with around 16K+ mi. What year is your car?

    I would say not to be too freaked out about it, but I wouldn't rely on our diagnosis to settle anything about this issue. I would recommend having it looked at and perhaps a second opinion would bring about an answer to this issue.

    The only other thing I would suggest is to listen and make sure its not the cats, as those could make a similar sound, although it would be much louder, but in that case I don't think it would go away when warm. Bad cats are a common fault with these cars apparently.


    Eric
     
  6. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
    Owner

    May 28, 2003
    9,422
    Colorado
    Full Name:
    Bastuna
    Supposedly this is a normal sound due to the flywheel.
     
  7. AZLambo

    AZLambo Formula Junior

    Nov 4, 2003
    502
    Phoenix, AZ
    Full Name:
    Jeff
    It sounds like your engine is going to fall out when first letting out the clutch and backing up...right? A metallic rattling sound, right? It is not your clutch...it is a belt tensioner that is heat-sensitive....and when everything warms up in a couple of minutes...all is okay, right? A lot of 355's do this. I was told by the dealer....don't worry about it. They have replaced these tensioners just to have the same thing happen again and again.
     
  8. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    6,335
    There are several symptoms for dual mass failure:

    A) The car is taking an extra second of cranking before catching on the first start of the day.

    B) the first light up of the engine may stumble a rev or two before it gets its act in gear. Sort of like a cough before running at idle speed.

    C) when the car is turned off there is s clunk that occurs with the clutch in and the same with the clutch out.

    A) and B) are caused by the dual mass flywheel being 14" away from the crankshaft. When it is not right, (different than expected) crahkshaft harmonics cause timing glitches in the read point of the ignition and interfer with startup.

    My DM FW episode cost slightly more than a clutch ($2000). Rebuilding them is easy; disassemble clutch, pull FW, clean, new o-ring, new grease, assemble and go. However, If mine takes another hike, the DM will become a SM FW!
     
  9. EVartanian

    EVartanian Formula 3

    Mar 19, 2002
    1,177
    Sunny SoCal
    Full Name:
    Eric
    Hmm...Mitch, you might be onto something here...I'll relay the message to my dad (his car) and see what he thinks.

    Eric

    [edit] By the way, what year is your car and at what mileage did this episode occur?
     
  10. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    6,335
    I guess I have to take some credit credit here.

    95 GTB Milage, around 30K; after 8-ish track events; and some questionalbe footwork. Since being fixed we've gone 22 more without incident; current milage 40K
     
  11. Tipo815

    Tipo815 F1 Rookie

    Nov 1, 2003
    3,493
    Newport Beach, CA
    Full Name:
    Jeffrey
    There is also one more possible sympton that has not been addressed. 355's have a third exhaust outlet that has a metal flapper that opens at higher rpms. When the car is cold this flapper rattles when you start to take off when the engine is not quite up to operating temperature. Once the engine warms the flapper expands and no longer rattles. It almost sounds like a clutch rattle or clutch chatter but you can usually feel the clutch through your foot when it chatters. If you do not feel the chatter and still hear the rattle it may be the metal flapper. If you ever add an aftermarket exhaust that would be a great time to inspect it.
     
  12. hugger

    hugger Rookie

    Jan 6, 2004
    7
    Thanks everyone! I only have about 7000 miles on my car, a 97 GTB. It sounds like the 3rd exhaust shaking sound from what I can make of it. The clutch feels fine when I engage it. I will go to the dealer that sold me the car. They have a whole bunch of 355s so I will get back to everyone on this. Will check this weekend. Thanks again.
     
  13. FLATOUTRACING

    FLATOUTRACING F1 Rookie

    Aug 20, 2001
    2,684
    East Coast
    Full Name:
    Jon K.
    I am not sure but if it's the belt tensioner it should be rattling even before you engage the clutch.

    The sound you all are referring to depends on the following:

    1) Does the sound get better if you depress the clutch pedal (without putting it into gear)?

    That would be what Mitch is referring to regarding the flywheel

    2) If there is no change in sound when depressing the clutch pedal it's likely your belt tensioner which is wearing out.

    I don't agree with the dealer that it should make that noise after installing a new one. That noise indicates it's not installed properly or that it's collapsing.

    If it collapses under heavy load (i.e. redline) your engine is going to be toast.

    Depress the clutch pedal while the car is cold without touching the gear shifter.

    It could also be that the transmission mounts are wearing out and the metal gear shifter below the gate is rattling.

    Regards,

    Jon P. Kofod
    www.flatoutracing.net
     
  14. hugger

    hugger Rookie

    Jan 6, 2004
    7
    Hi again everyone. I depress my clutch, then put it into gear, then hear the metal clapping sound. However, I can also feel the metal clapping from my left foot on the clutch pedal. Again, this does go away once everything is warm. Any ideas? Thanks.
     
  15. FLATOUTRACING

    FLATOUTRACING F1 Rookie

    Aug 20, 2001
    2,684
    East Coast
    Full Name:
    Jon K.
    It's not the chain tensioner. You would hear that regardless of the clutch pedal.

    Mitch might be right about the flywheel but I am not sure.

    Regards,

    jon
     
  16. GTO84

    GTO84 Formula Junior

    Dec 13, 2003
    562
    It's probably the pilot bearing being worn, or the diaphragm levers on the pressure plate could be worn. Is it kind of a squealing chirping rattle noise?
     
  17. ze_shark

    ze_shark Formula 3

    Jul 13, 2003
    1,270
    Switzerland (NW)
    Have the same rattling noise when idling first time from cold, F1 box in neutral i.e. clutch off. How can i tell for sure if I have a tensioner bearing problem and should anticipate the belt/tensioner replacement by 1 year ?
     
  18. vincent355

    vincent355 F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 8, 2003
    5,619
    Wine Country
    Full Name:
    Vincent
    I would check your gearbox oil level. Sometimes when a bit low you will get a sound like you're talking about.

    Vincent.
     
  19. ze_shark

    ze_shark Formula 3

    Jul 13, 2003
    1,270
    Switzerland (NW)
    interesting, always occurs after leaving my garage (steep downhill), is it difficult to check the gearbox oil level ?
     

Share This Page