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F355 Engine out - what else to look for?

Discussion in '348/355' started by Sancho22, Jan 11, 2020 at 1:09 PM.

  1. Sancho22

    Sancho22 Karting

    Oct 24, 2018
    55
    Full Name:
    Laszlo Szanka
    Hi all
    My recently acquired 1995 F355 Spider, 6 speed manual, Rosso Corsa/Crema is due for an engine out this year. I am thinking March time frame so that he car is ready for the driving season...the car Capristo stage II and challenge grille, shields otherwise stock. I bought it knowing that it will need TLC and engine out this year. I already replaced the tires and will do the top likely next year. I listed the major item fixed by previous owners - I am the 7th I think but despite that the car came with a fair amount of receipts and it looks like it was not abused. Please do not crucify me but I omitted the PPI - the PO was very straightforward about everything and we made a deal which made both of us happy.

    I red a fair amount around here and learned some but there is of course a ton more to learn.

    I think some things to check are : shifter gasket, water pump, Shell Spiral S5 for tranny (per Sharik), shock actuators, rubber hoses, oil hoses, powers tearing reservoir cap/reservoir replacement?, rear main seal, valve covers (repaint), check radiator condition, sub-frame condition, etc.

    Car has some leak...



    Important work done:

    11/21/19 New Michelin Pilot 4S Front: 225/40/R18; Rear 265/40/R18 44,749


    11/13/18 Updated receiving and sending units of Capristo system 44,414


    11/13/18 New fuse box 44,414


    06/08/18 New motor mounts 44,094


    10/27/17 New leather on driver and passenger seats 43,010


    04/03/17 New hood struts front and rear 42,436


    02/29/16 Replaced both crank sensors 42,336


    10/29/15 Engine out service: belts, seals, fluids, cam seals, etc. 42,336


    10/29/15 New battery 42,225


    04/25/14 Clutch replaced, including throw out bearing 41,609


    04/25/14 New cats; oil/filter 41,609


    04/25/14 Sticky vents refinished 41,609


    12/14/12 Driver side potentiometer replaced 39,986


    09/28/12 Passenger side potentiometer replaced; sticky switches refinished 39,441

    oil/filter


    02/16/12 New windshield ?


    01/11/12 New BF - Goodrich g-Force Sport COMP-2 tires 38,770


    07/08/11 Replace bronze value guides with steel during engine out service 36,348


    10/12/10 Manifold repair by Ricambi ?


    07/17/10 Bypass valve 33,xxx


    07/10/09 Capristo Stage-3 exhaust system installed 33,000


    3/17/04 Engine out service; clutch and shock repair 18,000


    3/29/01 Engine out service 15,6
     
  2. kenneyd

    kenneyd Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 30, 2014
    1,049
    NE FL
    Full Name:
    Ken
    Not having a PPI is not a big deal, as long as your ok accepting the possibilities of finding something.

    You'll probably find your lower cam belt drive bearings pn: 170787 are likely leaking. Replacing them requires resealing the pan and timing cover which should fix all your leaks anyway.
    While the pan is off, inspect the oil pump chain guide
    I'm sure you will get a lot more good advice here
     
  3. fboutlaw

    fboutlaw Karting

    Dec 3, 2014
    66
    Woodside, CA
    Are you taking it to a mechanic or doing the work yourself?

    I just completed my own F355 engine out and the car is at the dealer now for alignment, AC recharge, and to fix the ABS system which I don't have diagnostic tools for. Yelcab on the forum helped advise me as well as did the timing for the cams and helped me find a wire harness issue.

    Reference:
    1. bookmark the355.com, http://f355engineout.blogspot.com,
    2. download: https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/f355-engine-removal-part-1-need-part-2-3.510152/

    1. Check your engine
    a. Identify sites of leaks & note them down
    b. Do a leak down test - This will let you know if your valve seals are good. You may find like me that you have 4-8% leakdown and one cylinder with 27%... and then you need to do a valvejob
    c. Blow smoke in the headers and look for leaks
    d. Plan the scope of your work

    Basic Major - everything checks out ok above
    - Order the ricambi kit, do the belt change, set valve timings (you will need custom measuring tools for this). Don't rely on hooking the belt back up to the same teeth on the cam gears... the belt stretches over time and you're putting a fresh / unstretched belt on... it will change your timings.
    - While doing this get your injectors cleaned. I used mrinjector.us Great service, fast, well priced, recommended.
    - Water pump comes with the ricambi kit. You'll be replacing it.

    Option: Valve job
    - Do this only if leak down is > 4% in cylinders
    - Here you're pulling off the heads, sending them to a machinist, and having either the valves cleaned or new valve guides installed. It's a complex job and may take a few weeks (once your machinist starts)

    Option: Clutch
    - Do this if your clutch is worn
    - It's an easy job on this car
    - If your flywheel is warped, now is the time to resurface it

    Option: Headers
    - If you see smoke coming out of your headers during testing, replace your headers with the engine out. It's far easier to do out than when the engine is in

    Option: Suspension
    - If your dampers are worn out, it's time to rebuild them.
    - Just a heads up that it took DeltaVee 5 months from time of suspension arrival to start my job. Got the suspension back 5.5 months after shipping. They're really hard to get a hold of, but the work is top notch. I don't have regrets, but many times thought I was never getting the coilovers back due to lack of communication.

    Other maintenance items you want to address while the engine is out.
    - CV Boots. inspect and replace as needed
    - Hoses (all of them - cooling, oil, AC, PS, Air) inspect and replace as needed. these cars are now 20+ years old. Any OE hoses should be replaced / rebuilt.
    - Spark Plug Wires - inspect and replace as needed
    - Alternator - don't replace / repair unless you've had issues
    - Sensors - replace the water temp sensors (relatively cheap, and easy to do when engine is out), replace others only as needed
    - Engine & Trans mounts - If they are collapsed, replace

    That's all I can think of right now. If you're sending it to a professional, they should know all of the above and will advise you to fix what you need to. If you're doing it yourself... you'll find things. Don't rush. These forums (and search) are your friend.
     
    ClydeM likes this.
  4. Sancho22

    Sancho22 Karting

    Oct 24, 2018
    55
    Full Name:
    Laszlo Szanka
    Thanks a bunch - very helpful.
    Unfortunately I don't have the skills/space/tools or time to do the job myself. Maybe once I retire...
     
  5. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium Formula 3

    Jul 28, 2018
    1,675
    Central NJ
    Full Name:
    Eric
    That is incorrect from my understanding. Healthy racing engine cylinder leak down is 3-5%. I do believe heads are needed if closer to 20% from what I have read over the years on NA engines. I see that in car craft and a bizillion other magazines about building as well as my old 911 rebuild manuals. Example.
    https://support.alldata.com/sites/main/files/file-attachments/cylinder_leak-down_testing_011019.pdf
     
  6. yelcab

    yelcab F1 Veteran
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    9,427
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    I start saving my money at 10% leak down and do a valve job at 15% leak down. On the 355, once the problem begins, it goes down hill fast.
     
  7. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    7,562
    New England/FL
    Always love the belt stretch rant. 1) Belts don't stretch much. I have verified this be measuring old, high mileage (for a Ferrari, very old and very high mileage) belts. The difference between old and new belts accounted for about 1 degree of timing. Indistinguishable from timing changes due to belt tolerances. 2) Assuming the timing drift is due to belt stretch, replacing the belts will tends to restore timing to pre stretched values. 3) The need to retime the cams is more of an issue of confidence in whether the timing was correct at the previous belt change.

    LOL, as others have posted, this is nonsense. In any event, start with a compression test. If compression is good you're done. If not follow up with a leak down to determine where the problem is: valves, rings/liners, or head gasket.

    But mostly, if the car ran fine before you dropped the engine it will run fine after you change the belts.
     
  8. geopetrolhead

    geopetrolhead Rookie

    Mar 6, 2016
    7
    Eatbourne, UK
    Full Name:
    George
    Hi

    Out of interest how much was it to replace the bronze valve guides ....?




     
  9. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    7,562
    New England/FL
    Very dependent on who does the work and what type valve guides you use to replace the old one. In my case the head work ran about $1000 to replace the guides and install and seat the valves. Parts associated with the job, guides, new valves, all the required gaskets and seals that were not otherwise necessary, ran about another $4000. Then there is labor to R&R the heads, throttle bodies, injectors, fuel rails, ...... Fortunately for me, the problem on my car came up while the major, which was part of the sale agreement, was being done and what it cost and what it cost me were every different. Let's just say the seller didn't want to lose the sale.
     
    geopetrolhead likes this.
  10. fboutlaw

    fboutlaw Karting

    Dec 3, 2014
    66
    Woodside, CA
    Machinist work was $4k for valve guides. Including parts. Depends where you go and how fast you want it done.

    And ok, I'll admit, the 4% figure was very ambitious. Go with YelCab's recommendation.
     
  11. Sancho22

    Sancho22 Karting

    Oct 24, 2018
    55
    Full Name:
    Laszlo Szanka
    Thanks guys! Much appreciated.
     
  12. schererp

    schererp Rookie

    Jul 12, 2008
    13
    Hollister, CA
    Full Name:
    Paul Scherer
    A cheap prevention would be replacing the fans. The original fans are not sealed and in time build up deposits that increase loading which blows fuses. If you don't notice this while driving, you might blow a radiator (or worse)
     
  13. CSlow997

    CSlow997 Rookie

    Aug 5, 2016
    5
    North Atlantic
    Full Name:
    Captain Slow
    I didn’t see anyone else mention this yet but they may have... while you are at it I recommend replacing the fuel pump or at least inspecting and if the pressure is good get something like the rebuild kit from Scuderia Rampante which will take all of an hour to apply to the pump and is well worth it. Easy enough to do with or without the engine in as it drops out of the bottom of the tank (be gentle with the torque on the nuts) but as it sits so low a weak pump failing to get adequate fuel up to the fuel intake manifold can masquerade as a number of things. If you go this route check the part number as even with the pre-5.2 cars Ferrari were inconsistent with their pump pn’s in the NAS cars.
     
  14. PhilB

    PhilB Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Feb 17, 2004
    1,511
    NYC, USA
    Full Name:
    Phil
    Yeah but you don't need the engine out to replace the fans. That's easy to do engine in, and you can buy them from Amazon.
     
  15. Sancho22

    Sancho22 Karting

    Oct 24, 2018
    55
    Full Name:
    Laszlo Szanka
    Is they the part on Amazon - Ferrari 179278 Catalyst Temperature Control Station OEM Part Fits 355 360 456
     
  16. Krisatcruz

    Krisatcruz Rookie

    Apr 15, 2017
    2
    Hi I sent my 355 shocks back to bilstein in the uk . Took about 3 weeks and they did awesome job . Cost about £130 per shock and that’s with new rods fitted
     
  17. Sancho22

    Sancho22 Karting

    Oct 24, 2018
    55
    Full Name:
    Laszlo Szanka
    it looks from the receipts that the valve guides were similar to the above mentioned ~4K
     

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