F40 LM Restoration

Tim, you've become a real "Ferrarichat Superstar!" Really glad you didn't give up on this thread. We all know you are a true die-hard fan. Please publish a book with pictures when you're done! Thank you for sharing your experience with all of us who wish to be able to do this sort of thing someday.

The car is going to be amazing, and your patience is admirable though honestly it's moving much faster than I thought it would. Great shop you have to work with, and it's really cool you were able to work directly with Michelotto.

Please keep this going. One more here that is calling this Thread of the Year!

 

Thanks for this. Yes, I am going to put together a book with the history, restoration and evolution of the car, iBook style, but that is a few months away.

I have to say that I am actually enjoying posting this thread far more than I thought being able to share my adventure with interested and knowledgeable others, and as a fan, it occasionally seems surreal that I get to deal with Cristiano Michelotto direct. Only last night at 11pm, at dinner my phone rings and I find myself speaking to him and he is e mailing me all the details for the suspension geometry setup, albeit it would be nice if we had the parts to start with!

Whilst waiting for someone to get closer on the suspension question before I post more images of our progress, I have to make a tyre, or what you call tire, decision. The only tires that really work on the car are either the new Goodrich G Force Rivals or the Toyo R888. Unfortunately the Goodrich which would be my preferred choice, are not street legal in the UK and whilst it will spend most of its time on the track, it will occasionally venture onto the street. The car would therefore be effectively uninsured.

The R888 is almost as good a tire with a crazy tread pattern, as below, which does not really suit the look of the car but will make it handle great on track and on the street. One or two owners here in the UK are using these on their standard F40's and love them.

The final choice is to go back to the old Pirellis, possibly, which look right but simply no longer have the performance.

Any thoughts as I am leaning to the Toyos and so as to fir the suspension etc we need a tire?
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Tim,

What wheel and tyre size will you be running?

 

305 30 18 fronts
325/335 35 18 rears

 

I think you mean 30 series on the rear. 35 is preferred but not available in what you're looking for.

 

You are right but 35 is what I would really like but it seems that probably means Pirelli?

 

I agree as I would like 35 series for the rear as well. Let me know what you find over there but over here, I have come up empty on all brands, including Pirelli.

 

Why aren't the BFG's street legal in the UK, they have more of a tread pattern than the Toyo's?
I guess Hoosier Street radials are also illegal.
Since 75% of the time the car will be on the track, as I suggested another set of rims with street tires and the main wheels for the race setup.
As far as the tyre compliance issue that we discussed earlier, previous pictures of the car showed full on Goodyear slicks and 3-piece wheels, so the car had been subjected to the loading of full slicks previously.
Given you are replacing the full suspension with the Michelotti parts I would go with full race tyres as anything else is a compromise.
With respect, if it were my car I wouldn't chance a tyre with the sidewall construction like the BFG's. Too dodgy compared to a proper racing tyre.
Again a race wet tyre would have tread and softer compound so big traction or an inter that would last longer in dry conditions.
I would concentrate on that 75% track time as that is what this car is being built for.
On the street is ok but risky with a car like this, ultimately your decision.
Using original Pirelli P-Zero's would be a mistake as that is very old tyre technology.
Fascinating thread and we are all living vicariously through your masterful rebuild.
This is the ultimate progression for an F40, it deserves the LM/GTE treatment.
It will be an awesome car.
GV27TIFOSI

 

T,
Just sent you an email with a solution.

 

250 pf..... ????????????????

 

Tim

Its a technical quirk, which I have confirmed by the dept of transport, this could help with your tyre choice.

I plan to make my F3000 single seater street legal here in GB. As you can imagine 13" roads tyres of F1 size just dont exist. Avon however make a hard compound race rain tyre thats ideal.

It is illegal for a tyre manufacturer to sell tyres for use on uk roads unless they are e marked.

It is however not illegal to use non e marked tyres on UK roads.

As long as a tyre on a road vehicle has the correct tread depth and width as specified in the dept of transport manuals then it is totally legal to be used, even if they are pure race tyres. The warning on the side about not for highway use is just a disclaimer from the manufacturer

A car equipped with such will pass an mot test no problem.

You would just need to import the US spec road tyres from outside of the EU.

When previously used, non EU cars are imported into the UK they dont have to have the tyres changed, and when rally cars travel between stages on normal roads they are still fitted with non road spec rally tyres, all perfectly legal and above board.

Hope that might help

 

Almost looks like it's from a 625

 

Well, overall a disappointing response, but looks like you sir, win the prize as being closest. It is indeed off a 250, but a 250 TDF which they are also restoring. Shows the dramatic evolution motorsport has provided.

On the Tyre front, many thanks for the thoughts especially Paul and GV27 which means I might well opt for now for Goodrich and import from the States. One issue is that I really would like a 35 profile rear but it just seems impossible to find although I have one of the top tyre guys in the UK working on it for me and so hopefully will be in a position to make a decision imminently, as I need to so we can move forward on bodywork etc. I can see I may end up with a set of street tyres and possibly a set of track tyres or slicks, not that I have driven much on slicks.

Back to the car, as the 'prize', have a look at a few details of the Michelotto front suspension. Not a simple bolt on so we will have to make some minor changes to the pick up points, but that will then enable us to move forward and hopefully in 10 days time we might have the rest of the order, ductwork, brakes, anti roll bars, rear suspension, uprights etc.

Being racing parts the wishbones have not been treated so we are looking at powder coating or similar. All beautiful very high quality aircraft grade materials.

Note the hand written reference on the hub. Tailor made.
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Shweet and the bead on those welds are....... "making me frisky, honey".

 

So we are starting to rebuild our engine as you can see from the attached with all new bearings and now looking to find out the tolerances for pistons and liners but for some reason Ferrari don't have this information and apparently there are no less than 3 f40 engine rebuilds in the UK stuck for lack of this information.

We acquired a workshop manual hoping this would provide the answer-no. Anyone out there have any knowledge? All we have been informed is that the pistons are matched to the liners for clearance and there are various batches used which are colour coded to denote their tolerance but that does not help us.
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I just emailed you some specs from a different book but I am looking through my workshop manual and I have one page in Italian that alludes to the liner specs someplace else. Can you see that in your workshop manual? It's in section B on an unmarked page.

Also, I do have a to-scale technical drawing of the motor's internals but there are no measurements directly listed so that's not helping...

 

My manual is down at the shop but pretty sure there is nothing there as it has eluded everyone and the main dealer here is chasing the factory but with little result. So far.

 

It's a long shot but I sent a pic of the page to your email.

 

Much appreciated Ryan, but no good I am afraid. Maybe someone else out there has the answer??

 

If you are referring to liner wear, I know it is specified to measure the liners at 3 different depths at altering angles in the liner. the measured figures cannot be more than .0005 inch out from one another. Just be advised the cylinders 2,3 and 6,7 do change shapes slightly under torque from the heads meaning measuring them statically should afford up to .0007 variation rather than .0005 as with the others. The Nikasil coating used on these liners is remarkably strong and was done very well from new so I wouldn't expect a large amount of wear.

The pistons, if scuffed on the skirt at all should be discarded. Piston to wall clearance should be not more than .0035 for this engine as I believe forged alloy pistons with lower silicon content are the material Ferrari use for F40s. If not then I can name an excellent source to have pistons made to OEM spec yet with superior grade aluminum. These are designed by a gentleman who was probably forgotten more Ferrari piston designs than any 3 people have ever done. PM me for info if you would like. Mahle I believe still currently make a set which obviously works well too.

 

Late note with numbers:

Correct bore size as new should be exactly 3.2283. If the bore measurements taken at 3 depths in the liner are greater than 3.2288 than I would replace the liner.

 

Thank you very much for this info and I have already passed it on to the shop. Without wishing to sound rude and ungrateful, how do you know this?!

 

He knows. Ask him to send you pics of what he's built.

 

That is all I need to know!

 

Happy to help, just make sure the liner is not hourglassed in the more central to upper liner area where the piston thrusts against the wall hardest as that is typically where wear is seen if there is any. Nikasil is very hard stuff, but it can be stripped and reapplied if worst come to worst. Nikasil plating is about .002-.003 on these things.