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F40 weaknesses

Discussion in '288GTO/F40/F50/Enzo/LaFerrari' started by WILLIAM H, Jul 9, 2004.

  1. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

    Nov 1, 2003
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    All cars have weaknesses, The 308 needs more power & its stub axles are prone to snapping

    The 512TR has so so brakes & weak transmission & input shaft

    What are the weaknesses on the F40? Ive heard the brakes are bad & all the F40s that raced at LeMans went out with transmission failure
     
  2. SupercarFreak

    SupercarFreak Formula Junior

    Feb 22, 2004
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    Alex S.
    COUNTACH,

    I heard the stock F40 brakes are horrible, many F40 owners have upgraded to the F40LM Brembos. Besides that, I don't know of any other weaknesses. I wouldn't call the turbo lag a weakness, you just have to know how to handle it when it kicks in in the middle of a corner.

    SupercarFreak
     
  3. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    May 29, 2001
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    Hugh G. Rection
    Perhaps F40 brakes need upgrading for serious track work...but my friend Steve's F40 (he posts here) had some mighty impressive stops from 100+mph on rather cold brakes! He claimed he needed to warm them up...seemed fine to me. :)
     
  4. ag512bbi

    ag512bbi F1 Veteran
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    Nov 8, 2003
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    Armen
    The only weakness I experienced was weakness in my knees!!!!!! The car is a bat out of hell! Definitely the brake need help. Looking through the rear view mirror is worthless.
     
  5. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 17, 2001
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    Andrew Menasce
    Brakes for track time and sound for town driving ( :D )..Tubi is not enough imo..Tubi LM or straight pipes are what the F40 deserves.
     
  6. TurboFreak650

    TurboFreak650 Formula 3

    Jul 10, 2004
    2,181
    Atlanta, GA
    The actual rotors and calipers themselves were not flawed, just the calibration in the car and the lack of ABS. The 3rd generation Vipers had the same problem as recently as the 2004 final year model, which was finally solved with a new design for the SRT Vipers. The F40 would still stop tremendously compared to other cars of the time but can't compete with modern cars. Brembo still sells the "F40 calipers" by the way, as well as the F50 calipers for other high performance cars as upgrades.

    The well proven LM package (brake/clutch/turbo upgrades) is the way to go for the F40 since it was highly restricted at 478 HP anyway.
     
  7. rexrcr

    rexrcr Formula 3

    Nov 27, 2002
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    Rob Schermerhorn
    The F40 OE brake system is great at doing what it was designed for: super high performance street driving.

    Tracking a car is a different environment.

    With a properly maintained brake system, any F40 will stop hard, pulling nearly one g.

    Stock system with OE Pagid blue pads does not require heat in the pads for proper operation.

    For modifications, read on: Ferrari F40 Track Preparation and Modification

    As for F40 system failures, proper and timely maintenance cures most ills. You're more likely to discover owner induced issues such as extended storage without maintenance, or hard track driving, again without proper maintenance to recover from this usage.

    There was an alternator TSB in 1990.

    You may find boost related issues (hitting the fuel cut-off at 21 psi), many from owner tinkering, but some are with completely stock systems. Can certianly be repaired, ususlly fairly easily.

    Stock boost is 1.1 bar, 16.2 psi.

    Best regards,

    Rob Schermerhorn
     
  8. Bryan

    Bryan Formula 3

    There were too few made...so the price is high 8-(
     
  9. cmparrenzo

    cmparrenzo F1 Rookie
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    The only brake upgrade that is truly "bolt-on" and will achieve the best performance (according to Brembo, not me) is the one designed for my F40 in 2002.

    The stock brakes suck regardless of street or track use.

    We have discussed this many times on here and there are in-depth threads that go over this, but you cannot just replace rotors and calipers, you HAVE to replace the stock master cylinder as it is way undersized. We went with a dual master cylinder set-up and we love it! (The total pedal travel is less than a 1/4 of an inch, it feels great)

    it took Brembo 2 1/2 months to design this system and it is perfectly balanced for this car, it has been 100% trouble free. I have tracked it numerous times with not having to bleed the system once. I have run up to 40 laps at PPIR in a single session without a hint of fade, incredible.

    If you want this system, call Brembo's racing development center in Costa Mesa, California.

    William if you are going to be in Monterey, let me know, you can take a drive in the F40 and see if you like it...
     
  10. cmparrenzo

    cmparrenzo F1 Rookie
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    Actually the rotors are EXTREMELY flawed, they crack at every drill hole and become very brittle. The drilling allows the rotors to cool too quickly so they go through extreme heat cycling on the track.

    The calipers are marginal at best....

    The entire system is fine for light duty street driving, but try 5 stops from 120+ and you have nearly 100% fade (if you were with FCA at Cal Speedway in 2002, you saw me blow through the chicane because the brakes were completly gone!)

    They are OK for the street if you don't press it.... thats about it...

    Oh, and you have to run a TUBI Comp exhaust, your neighbors and your wife will just hate it, but you will never stop smiling!!
     
  11. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Chris, that Definately sounds like a good plan !!!!! :) THanks. I'll take it easy, I'll let you take the 512TR racer for a spin :)
     
  12. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
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    Sep 25, 2002
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    MO
    Ok where/when is Monterey??? I must be there!
     
  13. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Monterey is 1 hr S of SF, CA
    I havent driven Laguna in years, great track :)
     
  14. Sean F.

    Sean F. F1 Rookie

    Feb 4, 2003
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    And your friends wife will think it's just plain obnoxious!
     
  15. NSKFlorida

    NSKFlorida Rookie
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    Nov 1, 2003
    24
    Untrue. F40 brakes are tremendous, they just require an amazingly strong right (or left if you like that sort of thing) leg. If you STAND on the brakes, the car WILL slow down at an alarming rate. There's no two ways about it.

    My car runs Pagid Orange all round, SRF fluid, and SS lines. Original rotors and calipers, 8k miles since new, most of which are on the track.

    Granted, if you're used to modern (360, 996, etc) brakes, the F40's *feel* like they're bad. They're not.
     
  16. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2004
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    I would have to agree with Cris on this one. We could never get the brakes to work well until the dual master cylinder was put in. Simply would not stand up to repeated stops no matter what pads or fluid was used. The stock bias leaves a lot to be desired as well.
    One fault I have had numerous complaints about is the over cooling on street use. When driven in this manner the ecu will cut off the fuel injection because it sences the coolant to be too cold. Once the temps are up this is no longer a problem, but slow down and it gets too cold to run the boost up again.
    Dave
     
  17. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    Dave's correct. I haven't seen any F40 used hard where the brakes didn't become a real issue. And the over cooling is an issue as well. On the very first F40 we were delivered we believed something was wrong. FNA had me jump through about 15 hours of hoops doing diagnostics, phone calls to New Jersey, they calling Italy etc, until finally the word came down "Oh, it's normal, just leave it alone". It doesnt seem to effect all cars just some. By the way, they denied the Warranty claim.
     
  18. Roland E Linder

    Roland E Linder Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
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    I'll post pictures of the cooling system that Dave built for the LM. I have concrete brakes all day long with stoping power like on any GTP car I raced over the years..Maybe equal to the factory Champion 993 that 15" rotors and ABS !!! What can I say, that's why factory cars are so superior ..
    Roland
    F40LM
     
  19. albert328gts

    albert328gts Formula 3
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    Oct 31, 2003
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    They did not make enough of them and they are over my budget
     
  20. rexrcr

    rexrcr Formula 3

    Nov 27, 2002
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    Rob Schermerhorn
    I concure with this statement, very high pedal effort for a road car, though right in line with race cars.

    I've personally not experienced the ecu triggering errors based on cold colant temperatures. I do agree that the engine runs cold (perhaps too cold) when not run hard.


    Best regards,

    Rob Schermerhorn
     
  21. cmparrenzo

    cmparrenzo F1 Rookie
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    WOW! You must have the only F40 that stops! My experience with EVERY F40 I have encountered is that they will stop once or twice on the track then fade takes over and you have 0 pedal.... It is not an issue of pressure or "feel" the fade is so bad that regardless of pedal effort, they simply will not stop. The other issue is that the master cylinder is severly undersized, you have to go to a dual set-up if you are truly running at speed!

    I am sorry, but you are the exception, stock F40's brakes suck.
     
  22. Roland E Linder

    Roland E Linder Formula 3

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    #22 Roland E Linder, Aug 9, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  23. hhh

    hhh Karting

    Aug 19, 2004
    101
    Netherlands
    The only brake problem with the F40 at high speed running or circuit driving was high temperatures.
    I fitted F40LM brakeducts and slightly harder pads and that solved everything.
    Fitting other master cylinders is a waste of money; on my set up the car was great.
    Don't forget that all the 355 Challenge cars had stock F40 brakes and they performed without any problems.

    Discs cracking is quite common, when it's just small hairline cracks and not real cracks that run all the way to the outside, it's not a big problem. On racing cars you see this all the time.

    The only problem with the F40 was the rear screen and rear-vision; Nick Mason produced a modified version with three rows of louvres so you could see through it!

    Maybe a lot of owners with problems are just scared of driving their F40's fast and are on the brakes too much............
     

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